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#76 2015-06-23 15:29:18

eric235u
Member
From: free software land
Registered: 2008-05-10
Posts: 132
Website

Re: FluxBB v1.6?

chris98 wrote:

I have a fork too; Panther. You can see the link in my signature.

FWIW I just went to it and Avast went insane saying you are hosting malware.  Check your shit.

screen-shot-2015-06-23-at-11-33-22-am.png

Last edited by eric235u (2015-06-23 15:37:20)

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#77 2015-06-23 19:19:15

chris98
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From: England, United Kingdom
Registered: 2013-05-31
Posts: 1,292
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Re: FluxBB v1.6?

I've just checked now on MalwareBytes Pro Anti Malware Premium, and nothing has been picked up. For some reason though, it seems you haven't been redirected to the SSL version of the site, if you were using those links in the image. Maybe

Nevertheless, I've informed the other developers and we're checking to see if there is anything on the server. Thanks for the report.

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#78 2015-06-24 09:50:18

cyberman
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 2010-01-11
Posts: 297
Website

Re: FluxBB v1.6?

Studio384 wrote:
cyberman wrote:

Very important point - currently it's really difficult to see which version / fork will be have a future / long time support and not only some quick shots for the next month.

Not to brag or something but: Luna: 2 years, 2,5 months, and still going. smile And no plans on stopping either.

Yeah I know - it's the reason I favorite it currently wink ...

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#79 2015-06-24 17:33:50

Franz
Lead developer
From: Germany
Registered: 2008-05-13
Posts: 6,648
Website

Re: FluxBB v1.6?

A bit from me on all of this. It took me a while to gather my thoughts...

adaur wrote:

It's a shame that we can't get to work together, but I guess that's just the result of years without any long term objective and multiple reboots of Flux2

It's also the result of many years of not working together a lot. We had quite a few people on the core team without (m)any contributions. I understand that we do all of this in our free time. Still, I was the one doing most of the work. And my time was very limited, too, with studies etc.

The long-term objective was always to get to 2.0. We made a lot of attempts at getting there - this madness basically started with PunBB 1.3. In the meantime, we took a lot of turns and changed direction quite often; that's something I'm not proud of. I know that this demotivated a lot of people, and obviously was an obstacle to progress.

Joining forces with Toby (and Flarum) for me was the best way out of this disaster. Toby is determined to release Flarum this year; he even took time off college to get there. With this combined manpower I was positive we could finally reach this 2.0 milestone: a modern, well-thought-out forum software that is fast and easy to use. From my perspective, this was the best decision I could make in order to get things moving again.

Flarum represents a future of forum software that I can believe in. Even though it's very simple on the surface, it's code and architecture is considerably larger than that of FluxBB in its current form. (It's also better; FluxBB is very far behind in terms of software design.)

And that's very obviously where opinions diverge. Apparently there's still a much larger need for absolutely bare-bones forum software than I anticipated.

The result: Now we have a lot of forks, quite a few of them from "core team" members; who obviously had more time to invest in their fork than in FluxBB. Again, everybody is free to do so, and I just have to get along with that.

To be honest, that's still hard.

hcgtv wrote:

So what we have here are 4 developers, formerly all of FluxBB I presume, going their own directions. They essentially were coerced by the ribbon. What a shame to see any direction lost or forgotten.

The big irony for me is that it took a change in direction for FluxBB 2 to get people interested in putting any work into the 1.x series. I am sad that (after admittedly not doing the best job managing all of this), suddenly everybody is rather trying to fork than help improving the situation here. I think I made it clear that I wouldn't let FluxBB die because of my work on Flarum. Since people have expressed their continued interest in FluxBB in its current form, we have offered to start a 1.6 branch that keeps the old minimalism, but is a little more future-proof.

To get back to the bright side: This topic is evidence that there is a lot of shared interest in the goals for FluxBB 1.6 and all these forks.

hcgtv wrote:

What about a fork me page? Descriptions of all the forks that have sprung up from the Flux core. Akin to Ubuntu using Debian as a basis, Ubuntu is Debian for all general purposes with the Unity skin.

This way, developers get exposure, and should they feel generous, care to reciprocate, just send a pull request with security or enhancements back to Flux core.

I still hope that's not necessary.

Let's face it: with the multitude of forks being created right now, few have the chance of succeeding in the long term.

My objective for the "old" FluxBB is the following: I've promised to still support the 1.x branch. Due to the large interest in keeping it alive, I'm happy to get a 1.6 version going (with help from the community). When Flarum is finished, I'll happily pass on the reins to community members stepping up during this time.

hcgtv wrote:

Flarum - Took a peek on Git, I'd need to dig in a little more on that one.

Until the beta is released in July (hopefully), we're developing it in private. You can check out how it works and feels on the official forums.

Studio384 wrote:

And for FluxBB 2.0: Franz, what's actually the plan there? Is Flarum going to use the FluxBB 2.0 brand? If not, I think that, if we do include proper templating system, hook system, etc., etc... We shouldn't go with 1.6, but follow Sematic versioning and go with 2.0.

*And if we get official permission to do a new release of FluxBB, I'm happy to retake development on that and polish it for inclusion.

Flarum is the name. smile
So naming the next version 2.0 would be possible. That's something that can be discussed.

To make sure we'll get anywhere at all, though, we need to prioritize these goals. Here are the ones I deem absolutely necessary to pave the path for the future, most other things can come later:

  • A template system. This will make hooks and proper extensions much easier, and helps in keeping the code maintainable.

  • Responsive styling. That's absolutely needed these days; and still a possibility to stand out when compared to other forum software.

  • Code modernization. Lots of stuff can be thrown out, we can use PDO (and prepared statements) by requiring at least PHP 5.3.

hcgtv wrote:

As for who I back, I run Debian smile

Yay. smile


fluxbb.de | develoPHP

"As code is more often read than written it's really important to write clean code."

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#80 2015-06-24 18:12:42

micbr
Member
Registered: 2014-05-23
Posts: 58

Re: FluxBB v1.6?

There is another incentive for continuing development of FluxBB itself rather than a fork.

FluxBB, despite being a rather small contender in the forum software space, already has an established ecosystem of users and a trusted brand name. The Arch Linux project has based their 60,000+ user, 1.5 million post support community around FluxBB and believe it is one of the best solutions for their particular application. (As administrator jasonwryan said here, "the Flux devs have been good to us."). CrunchBang Linux operates a 15,000+ user, 420,000+ post community around FluxBB, the OpenStreetMap Foundation manages 20,000 users and 500,000+ posts with FluxBB and Textpattern CMS uses FluxBB to manage their support forums with 7,000 users and 215,000+ posts, among others.

We're considered an established project and already have the trust of these large communities, and it would be a shame to fork development here, let the FluxBB codebase and brand stagnate and lose that trust that has taken several years to build.

Last edited by micbr (2015-06-24 18:30:49)


Administrator, ThinkClassic - A vintage computer community.

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#81 2015-06-24 18:41:40

chris98
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From: England, United Kingdom
Registered: 2013-05-31
Posts: 1,292
Website

Re: FluxBB v1.6?

eric235u wrote:
chris98 wrote:

I have a fork too; Panther. You can see the link in my signature.

FWIW I just went to it and Avast went insane saying you are hosting malware.  Check your shit.

https://themnemeproject.files.wordpress … -22-am.png

Looks like it's a false positive. See: https://www.virustotal.com/en/url/f4c34 … /analysis/

There has been nothing found.

Lots of stuff can be thrown out, we can use PDO (and prepared statements) by requiring at least PHP 5.3.

Not quite sure how you'd enforce this, unless you're using something else that requires 5.3 and nothing below. Off hand, I think it's PHP 5.2.5 that PDO was first introduced by default. However, it wasn't until 5.3.6 until the massive EMULATE_PREPARES security bug was fixed. To be honest, it still isn't fully fixed (for MySQL) and I don't think it's ever going to be.

Here are the ones I deem absolutely necessary to pave the path for the future, most other things can come later:

Were you referring to FluxBB or Flarum here?

Last edited by chris98 (2015-06-24 18:42:18)

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#82 2015-06-24 20:03:04

Franz
Lead developer
From: Germany
Registered: 2008-05-13
Posts: 6,648
Website

Re: FluxBB v1.6?

chris98 wrote:

Here are the ones I deem absolutely necessary to pave the path for the future, most other things can come later:

Were you referring to FluxBB or Flarum here?

FluxBB 1.6.


fluxbb.de | develoPHP

"As code is more often read than written it's really important to write clean code."

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#83 2015-06-24 20:54:02

Studio384
Developer
From: Belgium
Registered: 2012-04-11
Posts: 681
Website

Re: FluxBB v1.6?

Franz wrote:

The big irony for me is that it took a change in direction for FluxBB 2 to get people interested in putting any work into the 1.x series.

Wait a second here... tongue I joined the developers team to continue the works on FluxBB 1.x and help out with FluxBB 2.0 if necessary. I've asked a couple of times since then to do a "FluxBB 1.6". I've proposed a lot of features for that kind of release in the past, and while the small ones often made it (not always) into 1.5.x releases, the larger changes, that could easily have gone into a 1.6 where always moved to 2.0, and the 2.0-core simply was never there to start building these features (due to the changes of plans, multiple times). This is a mail I send you back in 2013:

Hello Franz,

First of all, I know that I’ve asked you this already, where you replied that it would be a “bad sign towards the community”, however… I would want you to ask (I promis it’s the last time… for this year), it’s maybe time for another feature release in the FluxBB 1.x branch, it has been 2 years since 1.5 already. I understand why you think that something like a FluxBB 1.6 would be a bad sign with FluxBB 2 in development, but I personally think, that a dead tracker and saying or doing nothing is even worse. Also, I can handle it, you wanted me to concentrate more on FluxBB than my own ModernBB, well, I’d really love to do so. I can add some stuff on my own, no developer need to work on it too. Anyway, some stuff that might be considerable for a FluxBB 1.6 release:

•The SQLite 3 adapter your working on, might be more logical to add in 1.6 than in 1.5.6. After all, since we don’t release betas or RCs for patches, it doesn’t sound very safe to do this in a patch release, you never know what kind of bugs may appear, it would be handy if it’s just a beta or RC when that kind of stuff happens.
•Integrating my “Project Manta” plugin, as soon as it is finished.
•Ticket #913 can also be something nice for 1.6 http://fluxbb.org/development/core/tick … l67az58029.
•1-step forum creation (it’s only 3 changed lines to make this work).
•A small style refresh (just some minor changes on Air, Earth and Fire (read as: less borders), maybe a fourth yellow style, and saying goodbye to the old FluxBB 1.2 styles). We can use CSS for border-radius instead of the current images.
•Update templates, nothing new, just make them more readable, they are a mess right now.
•Some more parser options, like sub- and superscript, acronyms, etc. some useful stuff.
•Give the help page a menu (http://fluxbb.org/development/core/tickets/714/, currently planned for 2.0-beta1).
•Maybe other small stuff the community would like to see.

I think that the community would be happy with something like this. We can always ask them.

Cheers
-- Yannick

Some of these things have made it into FluxBB over time, but again, others should fit well in a FluxBB 1.6. But that's not why I post this mail here now, what I want to say here, I've always been interested in improving FluxBB 1.x (and mainly its UX, because like I said a couple of posts before, FluxBB has some major flaws on that point) from the moment I joined, no change of plans for 2.0 required. Point is, sure, most of us could have done more, including me, but some of us, including Reines and me, have used the "FluxBB 1.6"-brand in the past with a couple of feature proposals. I'm not going to search for it, but there are probably a lot of other people that did, including other members of the developer team. So it's not really fair to say that no one showed intrest in improving FluxBB 1.x until FluxBB 2.x, well..., derailed. Proposed features where mostly always pushed into FluxBB 2.0 and we ended up celebrating the 3rd anniversary of FluxBB 1.5 last month because of that. Honestly, if I was given the permission, all the work I had spend on ModernBB and Luna would have gone into improving FluxBB 1.x. And that's a lot of work. After all, that was the main goal of my "fork"*, improve FluxBB and bring the features that never maid it because of this - probably unintended - "policy".

* ModernBB was never intended as a fork, but a fully patched version of FluxBB 1.4 with ALL bug fixes and enhancements from 1.5, and not just the security updates as was officially released by FluxBB itself. It just ran out of hand a bit. smile

--------------------------------------------

Anyway, perhaps its time to start where one would usually start: make a page in the documentation with a proposal of what should come in the next update and clean up the bug tracker (close all tickets that will probably never make it), or perhaps even better: start from scratch in the ticket system on GitHub (which is much easier).

Last edited by Studio384 (2015-06-24 20:55:44)

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#84 2015-06-24 20:55:18

Franz
Lead developer
From: Germany
Registered: 2008-05-13
Posts: 6,648
Website

Re: FluxBB v1.6?

I didn't mean to be unfair; sorry if I did.

I'll get back with more tomorrow, really need to go to bed now.


fluxbb.de | develoPHP

"As code is more often read than written it's really important to write clean code."

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#85 2015-06-24 21:54:03

Askelon
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From: Bretagne − France
Registered: 2010-06-09
Posts: 202
Website

Re: FluxBB v1.6?

I wouldn't call it "unfair"; the choices that were made years ago were made in a context that, today, may seem preposterous, although it was not. I include myself among the forkers even though I never forked FluxBB yet, merely pushing features to Luna as that software looks more and more like what I need; but the reason I never proposed to push into FluxBB what I plan to push into Luna is that, at that time, it seemed useless to put hard work on a 1.x branch that would soon be deprecated. I just didn't think FluxBB 2.0 was still that far away and didn't want to waste time. I guess I'm not the only one in that situation.

But still, there's light in the end: all forks seem to head to a templating system and hooks implementation; there might be a lesson to learn: see how the forks go, what works, what doesn't, and use that experience for FluxBB. I've adapted Luna to use Gettext instead of the obsolete translation system based on arrays; I'll happily share this if needed. I don't put much faith in forks survival in general, but at least we could see them as labs to learn from and use what knowledge we get to improve FluxBB.

Last edited by Askelon (2015-06-24 21:55:18)

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#86 2015-06-25 16:28:41

Franz
Lead developer
From: Germany
Registered: 2008-05-13
Posts: 6,648
Website

Re: FluxBB v1.6?

Studio384 wrote:

Wait a second here... tongue I joined the developers team to continue the works on FluxBB 1.x and help out with FluxBB 2.0 if necessary. I've asked a couple of times since then to do a "FluxBB 1.6". I've proposed a lot of features for that kind of release in the past, and while the small ones often made it (not always) into 1.5.x releases, the larger changes, that could easily have gone into a 1.6 where always moved to 2.0, and the 2.0-core simply was never there to start building these features (due to the changes of plans, multiple times).

It didn't make sense for me back then, because I massively overestimated how much work I could put into v2.0.
But you're right - I honestly forgot about this one.
What we should have done: take it to the community and find out what they want.

Lack of communication was my biggest mistake, I think I must apologize to you and to the community.

Studio384 wrote:

Point is, sure, most of us could have done more, including me, but some of us, including Reines and me, have used the "FluxBB 1.6"-brand in the past with a couple of feature proposals. I'm not going to search for it, but there are probably a lot of other people that did, including other members of the developer team. So it's not really fair to say that no one showed intrest in improving FluxBB 1.x. until FluxBB 2.x, well..., derailed. Proposed features where mostly always pushed into FluxBB 2.0 and we ended up celebrating the 3rd anniversary of FluxBB 1.5 last month because of that. Honestly, if I was given the permission, all the work I had spend on ModernBB and Luna would have gone into improving FluxBB 1.x. And that's a lot of work. After all, that was the main goal of my "fork"*, improve FluxBB and bring the features that never maid it because of this - probably unintended - "policy".

Again, I didn't mean to be unfair; that was an oversimplification. Still, I would have wished for more contribution (to the community itself, too) from some of you.
That made me make lonely decisions and policies like the one above. sad

Studio384 wrote:

* ModernBB was never intended as a fork, but a fully patched version of FluxBB 1.4 with ALL bug fixes and enhancements from 1.5, and not just the security updates as was officially released by FluxBB itself.

Honestly, I don't think you brought that point across. wink

Studio384 wrote:

Anyway, perhaps its time to start where one would usually start: make a page in the documentation with a proposal of what should come in the next update and clean up the bug tracker (close all tickets that will probably never make it), or perhaps even better: start from scratch in the ticket system on GitHub (which is much easier).

Excellent point, let's start collecting ideas then.


fluxbb.de | develoPHP

"As code is more often read than written it's really important to write clean code."

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#87 2015-06-25 17:21:40

Studio384
Developer
From: Belgium
Registered: 2012-04-11
Posts: 681
Website

Re: FluxBB v1.6?

Franz wrote:
Studio384 wrote:

* ModernBB was never intended as a fork, but a fully patched version of FluxBB 1.4 with ALL bug fixes and enhancements from 1.5, and not just the security updates as was officially released by FluxBB itself.

Honestly, I don't think you brought that point across. wink

Actually I did, in the chat if I'm not mistaken... You asked me to port the security fixes from 1.5. and 1.5.3 to 1.4.10 and I asked "only the security fixes?". I wanted to do all of them - and I actually already did so already. I'm not sure if it was the chat, but we did have  that conversation.

I mentioned the point of it once again in the ModernBB 1.6 topic on this forum for it being actually FluxBB 1.4 with all patches from 1.5, just with another name.

Anyway, on to the idea topic.

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#88 2015-06-25 17:37:55

hcgtv
Member
From: Charlotte, NC
Registered: 2008-05-07
Posts: 463
Website

Re: FluxBB v1.6?

Franz wrote:

What we should have done: take it to the community and find out what they want.

I say we take up a collection and buy back the PunBB name from Informer.

Then go about making the lightest, fastest, PHP forum in the land.

One can dream smile

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#89 2015-06-25 17:40:24

Studio384
Developer
From: Belgium
Registered: 2012-04-11
Posts: 681
Website

Re: FluxBB v1.6?

hcgtv wrote:
Franz wrote:

What we should have done: take it to the community and find out what they want.

I say we take up a collection and buy back the PunBB name from Informer.

Then go about making the lightest, fastest, PHP forum in the land.

One can dream smile

Nha. In other news, PunBB actually got an update earlier this month after 3,5 year of radio silence. Impressive.

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#90 2019-02-11 10:24:16

Michaelo
New member
Registered: 2019-02-11
Posts: 1

Re: FluxBB v1.6?

Avoid going down the OOP's route, it complicates and is of no real benefit, stick to procedural programming.

I say this without reservation and with some experience having written code (mods, templates/styles and extensions) for php 2.x and 3.x for almost 20 years.

Stick to adding a template engine and some type of advance hook system, all of which can be achieved without resorting to external code...

Mike

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