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#51 2015-06-03 10:39:17

Visman
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From: Siberia
Registered: 2010-07-10
Posts: 1,391
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Re: FluxBB v1.6?

Visman wrote:

FluxBB.PE (FluxBB Power Edition) is old fork of FluxBB 1.4.
https://bitbucket.org/yoorick/fluxbb.pe/src

And no one paid any attention to this fork.
Available autoload classes, separation of code and html, ...

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#52 2015-06-03 11:21:40

Franz
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From: Germany
Registered: 2008-05-13
Posts: 6,721
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Re: FluxBB v1.6?

adaur wrote:

Let me reply by another question: can I convince you not to use a framework and not to associate with Flarum? I'm afraid your answer will be the same than mine.

I won't throw my free time in a project that would already be dead before its release, because if both FluxBB 2.0 and 1.6 were available here, everybody would download the 'latest' version, 2.0.

Since FluxBB 2.0 is Flarum, FluxBB itself could still live on. And in fact, it would probably have a better chance (due to its name and reputation) than one of many forks. This is my point: Since your philosophy obviously matches the original one of FluxBB and you are willing to invest time to modernize the source code, I'd think it would be better for both sides if you could help out here,

adaur wrote:

Moreover, even if I wanted to help Flarum, I couldn't: https://twitter.com/Flarum/status/603693430372368384

Seriously, is it open-source software or not? It seems to me that they don't want help at all, so I don't even know why I should try to participate to the project.

This is a temporary measure to avoid unfinished code being re-branded and distributed (I won't link there). Once we reach beta (aimed for July), we will open-source our progress again. At this time, things are changing so fast anyway that it would be hard to on-board potential contributors.
Again, this will change in July.

adaur wrote:

Long life to FluxBB anyway smile.

Exactly! smile


fluxbb.de | develoPHP

"As code is more often read than written it's really important to write clean code."

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#53 2015-06-03 11:50:48

adaur
Developer
From: France
Registered: 2010-01-07
Posts: 843
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Re: FluxBB v1.6?

@Visman: I've seen your code, but I won't take it as-is and claim it mine wink. I wouldn't learn anything if I copied the code directly. However, I must say that I'm impressed by the work done here.


FeatherBB - A simple and lightweight new generation forum system
Based on FluxBB, written in PHP, using Slim Framework for a proper OOP-MVC architecture.

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#54 2015-06-03 11:59:27

Visman
Member
From: Siberia
Registered: 2010-07-10
Posts: 1,391
Website

Re: FluxBB v1.6?

adaur wrote:

@Visman: I've seen your code, but I won't take it as-is and claim it mine wink. I wouldn't learn anything if I copied the code directly. However, I must say that I'm impressed by the work done here.

It is not my code.
Author: @yoorick http://fluxbb.org.ru/forum/viewtopic.ph … 226#p26226

---
up
Here is his profile, but no posts: https://fluxbb.org/forums/profile.php?id=57703

Last edited by Visman (2015-06-03 12:00:55)

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#55 2015-06-03 12:02:48

adaur
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From: France
Registered: 2010-01-07
Posts: 843
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Re: FluxBB v1.6?

By 'your' code, I meant 'your' link wink Too bad he's not active anymore.

The only reproach I would see is a complicated file structure.


FeatherBB - A simple and lightweight new generation forum system
Based on FluxBB, written in PHP, using Slim Framework for a proper OOP-MVC architecture.

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#56 2015-06-03 13:33:47

Askelon
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From: Bretagne − France
Registered: 2010-06-09
Posts: 202
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Re: FluxBB v1.6?

I have that feeling we're just running in circle.

First off, I fear the multiplicity of forks will eventually be the end of FluxBB 1.x. Right now too many people are starting too many projects in a hurry with little planning and thinking on what should be done and how; odds are most of these projects will be abandoned in a few months, or used and maintained by a handful of developers at best… For now I count 4 projects mentioned in this thread, each one having its own philosophy, OOP/MVC concepts and templates implementation. I don't know how users are supposed to discover them and then decide which one is the best for their own use, not to mention the fact that none has the "FluxBB" brand to vouch for it. And in the end, I'm not event sure of any of these forks will be compatible with FluxBB mods and styles… I haven't yet seen any talk about that part on any fork I've heard about. Not a good point when it comes to the future usage of these forks. FluxBB 1.6 will most likely not provide the things requested for years either (MVC, OOP, hooks), for that very same risk of breaking a lot of mods/styles/installations. Forks going that way will just be a scattering of good work to the use of a very little number of users with no unity behind…

I don't see of this is going to end. Maybe we should just focus on lightness for FluxBB 1.6 − no hooks, no templates, no MVC − or just settle on one (and one only) fork to use to build this. The latter just sounds like a massive waste of time on both parts, while the former is a less interesting but maybe more realistic option.

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#57 2015-06-03 13:51:51

doki
Member
Registered: 2008-05-10
Posts: 34

Re: FluxBB v1.6?

I think we should settle in two versions of fluxbb, the 1.5 - 1.9 version which will maintain the old punbb philosophy and 2.0 - x.x going forward with flarum. Both should have active developers and contributors. Its up for users which to choose in both versions. smile

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#58 2015-06-21 20:04:00

Studio384
Former Developer
From: Belgium
Registered: 2012-04-11
Posts: 681
Website

Re: FluxBB v1.6?

Askelon wrote:

I have that feeling we're just running in circle.

First off, I fear the multiplicity of forks will eventually be the end of FluxBB 1.x. Right now too many people are starting too many projects in a hurry with little planning and thinking on what should be done and how; odds are most of these projects will be abandoned in a few months, or used and maintained by a handful of developers at best… For now I count 4 projects mentioned in this thread, each one having its own philosophy, OOP/MVC concepts and templates implementation. I don't know how users are supposed to discover them and then decide which one is the best for their own use, not to mention the fact that none has the "FluxBB" brand to vouch for it. And in the end, I'm not event sure of any of these forks will be compatible with FluxBB mods and styles… I haven't yet seen any talk about that part on any fork I've heard about. Not a good point when it comes to the future usage of these forks. FluxBB 1.6 will most likely not provide the things requested for years either (MVC, OOP, hooks), for that very same risk of breaking a lot of mods/styles/installations. Forks going that way will just be a scattering of good work to the use of a very little number of users with no unity behind…

I don't see why it is a problem that support for plugins and styles gets broken between FluxBB and a fork. I mean, we can hardly keep full compatibility between FluxBB releases, even in the same branch, let alone that forks can. FluxBB's code base is old and based on old ideas of coding, it basically has to break to go along with. And FluxBB should do that itself too. But I'm sure Flarum is not the answer. Neither was this new path with Laravel.

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#59 2015-06-21 21:25:11

hcgtv
Member
From: Charlotte, NC
Registered: 2008-05-07
Posts: 463
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Re: FluxBB v1.6?

Askelon wrote:

For now I count 4 projects mentioned in this thread, each one having its own philosophy, OOP/MVC concepts and templates implementation.

This is getting hard to follow, Flarum, Luna, FeatherBB, what else?

Maybe we should have a thread explaining where all the FluxBB developers are heading, what sets their forks apart from FluxBB, and then we can make a decision what horse to back.

As it stands now, all these forks are just going to wither away on Git, cause ain't nobody going to know about them.

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#60 2015-06-21 21:30:52

cyberman
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From: Germany
Registered: 2010-01-11
Posts: 297
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Re: FluxBB v1.6?

Askelon wrote:

I don't know how users are supposed to discover them and then decide which one is the best for their own use,

Very important point - currently it's really difficult to see which version / fork will be have a future / long time support and not only some quick shots for the next month.

On this point it's a very high risk in my eyes - the step to a completely another forum (for a customer like me) is very short too. And yes, I'm looking for alternatives outside FluxBB universe.

hcgtv wrote:

This is getting hard to follow, Flarum, Luna, FeatherBB, what else?

Panther ...

Last edited by cyberman (2015-06-21 21:32:57)

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#61 2015-06-21 22:24:46

adaur
Developer
From: France
Registered: 2010-01-07
Posts: 843
Website

Re: FluxBB v1.6?

Each fork follows a different direction. For me:

Luna: redefining user experience, fork focused on 'templating'
Panther: improving existing FluxBB codebase adding extra feature cleanly such as subforums, url rewriting, pm, colored usergroup, focused on 'features'
Flarum: new start with modern tools, probability heavier than FluxBB
FeatherBB: improving existing FluxBB codebase using modern tools (major refactoring of FluxBB existing code to something more modern: lightweight framework, mvc...) focused on 'code' and not on features

If you disagree with what I've posted above, feel free to correct me.

It's a shame that we can't get to work together, but I guess that's just the result of years without any long term objective and multiple reboots of Flux2


FeatherBB - A simple and lightweight new generation forum system
Based on FluxBB, written in PHP, using Slim Framework for a proper OOP-MVC architecture.

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#62 2015-06-21 22:26:43

Askelon
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From: Bretagne − France
Registered: 2010-06-09
Posts: 202
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Re: FluxBB v1.6?

Studio384 wrote:

I don't see why it is a problem that support for plugins and styles gets broken between FluxBB and a fork. I mean, we can hardly keep full compatibility between FluxBB releases, even in the same branch

True, but at least it's still FluxBB and people can expect styles/mods developers to keep up. I'm not saying fork developers should be worried about that, or at least not too much; I'm just saying that's something that could refrain a good deal of potential users. "Ok, I want to start using X, that's a FluxBB fork, I should be ok. Oh, it doesn't have my style, nor my trusted antispam mod and various other stuff... Means I'll have to take time to find equivalent mods, provided they even exist, which is not guaranteed as X is rather young and confidential yet"...

That's not a crushing issue; but that's an important point to keep in mind.

cyberman wrote:

currently it's really difficult to see which version / fork will be have a future / long time support and not only some quick shots for the next month.

hcgtv wrote:

As it stands now, all these forks are just going to wither away on Git, cause ain't nobody going to know about them.

My feeling too, to some extend. I have a good feeling about Luna; Studio384 has been working on it for quite a long time now and I like the result; the fact that it's taken some step out of the ultra-minimalist philosophy of FluxBB makes it a good try for a lot of users. FeatherBB is looking into a direction of major code rewriting but yet staying very close to the FluxBB way of things, but it's very recent; I hope adaur is still here in a couple years to make it live ;-) As for Flarum, nothing to fear. It already has some popularity from what I saw, and it will have the benefit of the FluxBB brand plus a huge lot of modernity; it may lose a lot of hardcore FluxBB users, but it will easily survive it.


The best that can be done right now is to build some nice things for the 1.x branch; when Flarum finally gets released and 1.x is dropped, we'll see which fork(s) remain(s), if any.

Last edited by Askelon (2015-06-21 22:30:33)

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#63 2015-06-21 22:52:41

hcgtv
Member
From: Charlotte, NC
Registered: 2008-05-07
Posts: 463
Website

Re: FluxBB v1.6?

adaur wrote:

Luna: redefining user experience, fork focused on 'templating'
Panther: improving existing FluxBB codebase adding extra feature cleanly such as subforums, url rewriting, pm, colored usergroup, focused on 'features'
Flarum: new start with modern tools, probability heavier than FluxBB
FeatherBB: improving existing FluxBB codebase using modern tools (major refactoring of FluxBB existing code to something more modern: lightweight framework, mvc...) focused on 'code' and not on features

Thanks for the clarification, I'm going to install each one locally and come back with my thoughts.

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#64 2015-06-22 07:21:11

chris98
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From: England, United Kingdom
Registered: 2013-05-31
Posts: 1,292
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Re: FluxBB v1.6?

This is getting hard to follow, Flarum, Luna, FeatherBB, what else?

I have a fork too; Panther. You can see the link in my signature.

Maybe we should have a thread explaining where all the FluxBB developers are heading, what sets their forks apart from FluxBB, and then we can make a decision what horse to back.

I think this is a fairly good idea - there may even be ones I'm unaware of!

adaur wrote:

Panther: improving existing FluxBB codebase adding extra feature cleanly such as subforums, url rewriting, pm, colored usergroup, focused on 'features'

Thought I'd expand on this point as this is exactly what I feared people would think of it. While Panther does have a lot of features such as sub forums, post approval, topic archiving, edit/delete time limits, restoring deleted posts .etc (and you're right in that we try to add them as cleanly as possible big_smile ) they're not in there just for the sake of it, everything in the core has a purpose - some anti spam, others easier management and others SEO, such as the different URL schemes.

I was actually talking to one of my developers about this the other day, and how we shouldn't just pile in features for the sake of it. Other thsn just piling features in, we're for the best security possible, proper templating (so you can edit the HTML for every file in custom styles), addons and plugins (so you never modify the core).

If you take a look at a brief description of a Panther:

The Panther is a rare, strong and smart animal.

The dark coat gives the panther the ability to hide in the shadows of jungles and forests.

Highly adaptable, its success in the wild can be attributed to its opportunistic hunting practices (it will hunt and kill almost any type of prey) and its ability to adapt even to harsh climates. As a result of this animal's abilities -- its top speed is somewhere in the area of 36 mph, it has unequaled climbing ability (even while carrying a heavy carcass), and it's notorious for its stealth abilities

Anyway ... I feel I'm starting to ramble on here so I'm going to close by saying that I think all of the forks have some use, Luna, I particularly like the styling and other aspects of it, FeatherBB has impressive code separation techniques and it does have a fairly good code background.

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#65 2015-06-22 07:52:36

Visman
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From: Siberia
Registered: 2010-07-10
Posts: 1,391
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Re: FluxBB v1.6?

I have a fork too; Panther. You can see the link in my signature.

Where the original copyright of the code?

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#66 2015-06-22 11:21:25

hcgtv
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From: Charlotte, NC
Registered: 2008-05-07
Posts: 463
Website

Re: FluxBB v1.6?

Installed the following projects:

FeatherBB master - Light as a feather, the tag line fits.

Luna 1.1.4746 - Wow, different, nice direction.

Panther 1.0.7 - Feels like Flux with some added oomph.

Flarum - Took a peek on Git, I'd need to dig in a little more on that one.

Fork me on Git, it's creeping into our mindset, what with all the ribbons on project sites.

So what we have here are 4 developers, formerly all of FluxBB I presume, going their own directions. They essentially were coerced by the ribbon. What a shame to see any direction lost or forgotten.

What about a fork me page? Descriptions of all the forks that have sprung up from the Flux core. Akin to Ubuntu using Debian as a basis, Ubuntu is Debian for all general purposes with the Unity skin.

This way, developers get exposure, and should they feel generous, care to reciprocate, just send a pull request with security or enhancements back to Flux core.

As for who I back, I run Debian smile

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#67 2015-06-22 11:32:22

chris98
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From: England, United Kingdom
Registered: 2013-05-31
Posts: 1,292
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Re: FluxBB v1.6?

Where the original copyright of the code?

I've spoken to one of my developers and he says he changed it. He's changing it back at the end of today as we're currently changing things on GitLab.

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#68 2015-06-22 11:56:32

Studio384
Former Developer
From: Belgium
Registered: 2012-04-11
Posts: 681
Website

Re: FluxBB v1.6?

adaur wrote:

Luna: redefining user experience, fork focused on 'templating'

You lost me here with the templating part. Sure, there has been a lot of work around templates but I would hardly say that it is the major thing that has been worked on. It's more a general overhaul of the whole FluxBB code.

cyberman wrote:

Very important point - currently it's really difficult to see which version / fork will be have a future / long time support and not only some quick shots for the next month.

Not to brag or something but: Luna: 2 years, 2,5 months, and still going. smile And no plans on stopping either.

-----------------------------------------

Anyway, back to FluxBB, because that's why we're here. I would be happy to help along with a FluxBB 1.6 release and bring some improvements to the system.

If you ask me, one of the most important things FluxBB has to improve on is not just the codebase and general feature set, but the User Experience as a whole. The profile is terrible, and so is the admin panel (to many unrelated settings on one page (Options page), kinda like the Windows Phone settings app in Windows Phone 8.1.1 and earlier). I think these are the things that need - on the visible end - the most attention, and I'm willing to put some attention in it. I already have partially functioning profile redesign that should fix a lot of usability issues, including the inability to see your own profile.*

Further, a proper templating system wouldn't hurt either. Now that we're talking about templates anyway, the styles - Air, Earth and Fire - should, in my opinion, stay visually the same (or at least close too). The other styles shouldn't be part of the core (or should get updated to look a lot more modern). However, all styles that do get included, should provide support for responsive design.

I think that other things that should be included is a toolbar for editors, to make it easier to use BBCode. Not everyone understands BBCode. It doesn't have to be WYSIWYG-editor, and honestly, it shouldn't be, but some buttons that include tags into posts wouldn't be such a big deal on the whole "minimalistic" thing. And for the codebase in general, SQLite 3 support is far overdue, and with PHP 7 coming later this year, we should support it to - as it appears that there are some bugs with the current FluxBB code when used on a PHP 7-based system, we should be ready.

-----------------------------------------

And for FluxBB 2.0: Franz, what's actually the plan there? Is Flarum going to use the FluxBB 2.0 brand? If not, I think that, if we do include proper templating system, hook system, etc., etc... We shouldn't go with 1.6, but follow Sematic versioning and go with 2.0.

-----------------------------------------

*And if we get official permission to do a new release of FluxBB, I'm happy to retake development on that and polish it for inclusion.

Last edited by Studio384 (2015-06-22 11:58:21)

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#69 2015-06-22 12:00:16

chris98
Member
From: England, United Kingdom
Registered: 2013-05-31
Posts: 1,292
Website

Re: FluxBB v1.6?

If I was to suggest anything code related, I'd say change the database driver to PDO and use prepared statements. You wouldn't need to drop support for SQLite or PostgreSQL either: http://php.net/manual/en/pdo.drivers.php

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#70 2015-06-22 12:43:23

adaur
Developer
From: France
Registered: 2010-01-07
Posts: 843
Website

Re: FluxBB v1.6?

Yannick, if you read carefully the paragraph about Luna, you'll see that I mention user experience. Isn't that what all your post is about?


FeatherBB - A simple and lightweight new generation forum system
Based on FluxBB, written in PHP, using Slim Framework for a proper OOP-MVC architecture.

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#71 2015-06-22 13:17:45

Studio384
Former Developer
From: Belgium
Registered: 2012-04-11
Posts: 681
Website

Re: FluxBB v1.6?

adaur wrote:

Yannick, if you read carefully the paragraph about Luna, you'll see that I mention user experience. Isn't that what all your post is about?

I was more pointing towards the second part about templating.

And all the rest of my post was about FluxBB.

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#72 2015-06-22 13:30:34

adaur
Developer
From: France
Registered: 2010-01-07
Posts: 843
Website

Re: FluxBB v1.6?

I was considering templating as what the user can see,  sorry if we misunderstood each other.


FeatherBB - A simple and lightweight new generation forum system
Based on FluxBB, written in PHP, using Slim Framework for a proper OOP-MVC architecture.

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#73 2015-06-22 16:34:28

Studio384
Former Developer
From: Belgium
Registered: 2012-04-11
Posts: 681
Website

Re: FluxBB v1.6?

adaur wrote:

I was considering templating as what the user can see,  sorry if we misunderstood each other.

Ha, I didn't, templating is more something that admins are aware of then users, no?

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#74 2015-06-22 18:39:42

adaur
Developer
From: France
Registered: 2010-01-07
Posts: 843
Website

Re: FluxBB v1.6?

Studio384 wrote:
adaur wrote:

I was considering templating as what the user can see,  sorry if we misunderstood each other.

Ha, I didn't, templating is more something that admins are aware of then users, no?

It depends on your definition of template. For me, a template is literally everything one can see from a website, structuring its appearance, hence their crucial importance for the end-user.


FeatherBB - A simple and lightweight new generation forum system
Based on FluxBB, written in PHP, using Slim Framework for a proper OOP-MVC architecture.

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#75 2015-06-22 18:48:40

Studio384
Former Developer
From: Belgium
Registered: 2012-04-11
Posts: 681
Website

Re: FluxBB v1.6?

adaur wrote:
Studio384 wrote:
adaur wrote:

I was considering templating as what the user can see,  sorry if we misunderstood each other.

Ha, I didn't, templating is more something that admins are aware of then users, no?

It depends on your definition of template. For me, a template is literally everything one can see from a website, structuring its appearance, hence their crucial importance for the end-user.

Well, I meant the things users would notice. If everything's alright, a user shouldn't notice the difference between FluxBB 1.5 with its current system and FluxBB 1.6 with templates. That's what I meant: you need to see the code itself to see the difference.

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