FluxBB v1.6?

chris98 · 2015-05-23 12:03:44

I still feel that this should be an extension at the most, I don't like the idea of multiple user groups. Even though you've explained it and does sort of make sense, it would make things heavy and cluttered (like phpBB), and FluxBB is supposed to be a minimal forum.

Askelon · 2015-05-23 22:15:04

cyberman wrote:

No I don't like it anyway.
Have seen too much hosts on my clients where writing (system) files by server makes trouble. Often the server becames the file owner and afterwards it was difficult to access/modify/delete it by FTP.

Well, WordPress for instance has been providing a one-click update for core, themes and plugins for more than 6 years now. I guess it's safe to say they found a pretty reliable way to make it work. I've been using WordPress since then, never encountered a single update failure due to file permissions (not sure I even saw an update failure at all, for that matter).

Last edited by Askelon (2015-05-23 22:16:55)

GGue · 2015-05-24 11:03:30

Sure, a mod can be good to solve the issue. The important thing is that who will manage the release can give a set of mod as that, useful in some cases.. We have today a lot of good mod, for previous versions..

Franz · 2015-05-26 07:57:52

There's a lot of security issues to consider with downloading code via the internet etc.
Check out this Composer package for some pretty good stuff.

GGue · 2015-05-27 21:59:37

In any case, I think this can be something more, but not urgent as other goals.

Real fact is that we also gain something to provide clients updates and management. And, shouldn't be a real problem to update with manual download. Best way to stop with not professional peoples who think to work because know where to find "update" button..

Hungmi · 2015-05-30 16:07:24

adaur wrote:

Tags will never be a core-feature - a mod already exists.

Thanks! now i'll wait for the next version, FluxBB-1.5.9. and test this mod.

Have somebody need the sub-forum too?

eric235u · 2015-06-01 15:24:52

cyberman wrote:

To the first - think it would be a good idea to let it be what it is ... a very slim forum software.
But no more extensions inside!

Agreed.

If people want to attempt to continue on with fluxbb, I'm in but stay out of core. Make plugins. The community should stop using mods. Mods are just not maintainable long term, particularly for non-programmers, IMHO.

In the end words are cheap. Show me the code. If you look at the git commit log you can see the only significant work of late has been done by Franz and he's working on Flarum. Who else is qualified and will actually do the work? I can code but I'm not qualified to be lead dev.

I suspect 1.6 will never happen.

I am interested in any security updates.

Thanks.

cyberman · 2015-06-02 06:22:34

eric235u wrote:

I can code but I'm not qualified to be lead dev.

Why not?

As a coder you should be familiar with coding flowcharts.

Leading a team ist nothing else ... added by some human components.

micbr · 2015-06-02 07:42:21

Askelon wrote:

Automatic updates will be impossible to use for a good portion of the FluxBB users. If you have so much as one mods in place, automatic update will erase it.

We're adding some complexity with this solution so already it may not be desirable, but if we're doing whole file replacements (and not diffs) would it be possible to check the integrity of the installed files with a checksum prior to running an automatic update and halting the process in advance if a checksum mismatch is encountered?

Just a thought.

eric235u wrote:

In the end words are cheap. Show me the code. If you look at the git commit log you can see the only significant work of late has been done by Franz and he's working on Flarum. Who else is qualified and will actually do the work? I can code but I'm not qualified to be lead dev.

Words are cheap, and it's dangerous territory when a project slows to such an extent. I've recently come across from a commercially owned publication where the only action was talk between administrators with little progress, and despite good intentions, I don't suspect they'll be around much longer.

The issue is that projects like this need someone to lead and make the final decision on what happens and what doesn't. I think Franz and the current FluxBB developers showed initiative in deciding what features and fixes would go in and which ones were left out. They made final decisions about what FluxBB should and shouldn't be, and perhaps they didn't always please everyone, but it was necessary to preserve the integrity and maintain the aims of the project - to be a lightweight and easy to use forum solution.

There's also issues associated with handing over control of an existing project to a new developer and having that new developer follow the same aims and conventions the existing developer used. For example, we've recently discussed continuing development of FluxBB in-house for our own discussion forums. We want the logic separated from the interface with some additional hooks included for extensions. Whatever template solution we choose and how we code it probably won't follow the aims and coding conventions set by the previous FluxBB developers because our aims have changed with the handover from one group of developers to another.

Not to mention that in the case of my own community, we're all inexperienced to intermediate PHP developers that will likely find difficulties filling the vacant roles left by the existing experienced FluxBB developers. I can write modifications and extensions but I haven't touched a revision control system like Git or SVN before in my life.

eric235u wrote:

I suspect 1.6 will never happen.

Unless someone has the necessary experience and time to take over from Franz and form a small but dedicated development team to continue development, I have a rather unpleasant feeling that your suspicions will be correct.

Last edited by micbr (2015-06-02 09:34:53)

cyberman · 2015-06-02 11:42:55

Why not two FluxBB versions?

FluxBB 2.0 = Flarum = a really modern and grazy looking solution
FluxBB 1.6 = a little bit more old school solution

Franz said he will give (some) support for 1.x series in the future. So we wount be alone . I'm sure he could (and would) help as "Senior coach" at the crucial points if there are enough people who will code 1.6. On the other side it would help Franz to concentrate his work on Flarum.

Seems like a win-win-situation ...

Visman · 2015-06-02 11:48:36

Another fork http://fluxbb.fr/forums/viewtopic.php?id=13617

Franz · 2015-06-02 12:29:28

I'll gladly give some input on how I would do templating and such things in 1.6 (I just don't want to do it for all the code)... let's see if we can merge forces with adaur.

cyberman · 2015-06-02 13:36:30

Franz wrote:

I'll gladly give some input on how I would do templating and such things in 1.6

Maybe it could be a good idea to "outsource" these parts so we don't have to reinvent the wheel ...

So I'm playing currently with FatFreeFramework and the use within FluxBB .

It's very slim like FluxBB it is (only 65k), has a template engine (pure php or some own stuff), a database layer and some ORM inside.

Franz · 2015-06-02 13:55:46

Using a select few libraries may be better than using a framework then.

eric235u · 2015-06-02 15:34:45

IMHO I see no reason to use a a framework for a very basic forum written in PHP. PHP itself is super simple and has a ton of built in functionality. Using frameworks and importing libraries seems the opposite of lightweight.

If it were up to me FluxxBB would focus on speed and security. Use no frameworks or javascript. Mods strongly discouraged. Plugins encouraged. Updates can be automatic similar to Wordpress. I particularly like how they use child themes for those who want to make modifications.

My $0.02. :)

But without the brain power and those willing to write the code none of this matters.

Last edited by eric235u (2015-06-02 15:37:40)

cyberman · 2015-06-02 16:48:44

eric235u wrote:

PHP itself is super simple and has a ton of built in functionality.

It's so super simple?

Ok.

When we will see your version 1.6 ?

My spare time is very limited so it's the easiest to use ready coded parts (name it frameworks, libraries or something else).

A big sizer like Flow makes not sense, right!

But if the ratio between the size of a micro framework like F3 (has uncompressed 221k, code base only 65k) and the size of the forum (currently uncompressed 1,39 MB) is right ... why not?

Have you read the F3 website? There are a lot of code und functionalities they can give advanced features to FluxBB, for instance replacing the current database layer

F3 supports both SQL and NoSQL databases off-the-shelf: MySQL, SQLite, MSSQL/Sybase, PostgreSQL, MongoDB and its own lightning fast Flat-File DB (we call it Jig).

You want security? Great

F3 can also shield you from spam and DoS attacks, by performing DNSBL checks. It can increase your server health and uptime, by controlling web server traffic with profile analysis and bandwidth throttle.

If you weigh what you win with the use of F3, and what you lose - the scales say YES to F3 .

And by the way - if a power coder like Franz says it's too hard to fight alone for the next version there's help needed, and F3 can give this help (partially).

eric235u · 2015-06-02 17:54:11

cyberman wrote:

It's so super simple?
Ok.
When we will see your version 1.6 ?

One good thing about open source is we can all do what we want. Nothing wrong with cutting and forking. I'm currently working on another project but should be free in about a month. Who knows what will happen.

TigerAero · 2015-06-02 19:10:41

eric235u wrote:

cyberman wrote:
It's so super simple?
Ok.
When we will see your version 1.6 ?
One good thing about open source is we can all do what we want. Nothing wrong with cutting and forking. I'm currently working on another project but should be free in about a month. Who knows what will happen.

Hey eric235u,

Love the new color scheme.

eric235u · 2015-06-02 20:20:37

TigerAero wrote:

eric235u wrote:
cyberman wrote:
It's so super simple?
Ok.
When we will see your version 1.6 :D?
One good thing about open source is we can all do what we want. Nothing wrong with cutting and forking. I'm currently working on another project but should be free in about a month. Who knows what will happen.
Hey eric235u,
Love the new color scheme. :)

Oh please stop with the jokes. I an idiot when it comes to html css. I'm server side. PHP, PL/SQL, Bash, etc.

But to stay on topic I'll diff what ever you all do and apply if needed. I'll probably commit something to git for review of better coders as my little play site needs, but at the moment current stable is fine with me. I learned all my bad habits from this code!

There still are some larger forums using FluxBB no? I wonder what they are going to do. I'm just playing around with it as I feel nostalgic for punbb.

adaur · 2015-06-03 09:25:53

Visman wrote:

Another fork http://fluxbb.fr/forums/viewtopic.php?id=13617

I didn't want to post here since I've just started to work and I have nothing to show for now... But since you post here, I have to say that I forked to do a "modernized" version of FluxBB with MVC (separation of code & HTML) first, then include PDO in queries, then OOP and 'hooks' (or something else, I don't know yet).

I could've helped Panther or GetLuna, but none of these projects seem to follow FluxBB's vision: being as light as possible, no extra-feature needed. This is not an attack against Chris or Yannick, we simply don't share the same vision.

@Franz: I'll reply here https://github.com/featherbb/featherbb/issues/1

Can I convince you to contribute some of these changes to FluxBB 1.6 instead?

Let me reply by another question: can I convince you not to associate with Flarum? I'm afraid your answer will be the same than mine.

I won't throw my free time in a project that would already be dead before its release, because if both FluxBB 2.0 and 1.6 were available here, everybody would download the 'latest' version, 2.0.

Moreover, even if I wanted to help Flarum, I couldn't: https://twitter.com/Flarum/status/603693430372368384

Seriously, is it open-source software or not? It seems to me that they don't want help at all, so I don't even know why I should try to participate to the project.

Long life to FluxBB anyway .

chris98 · 2015-06-03 09:35:43

then include PDO in queries, then OOP and 'hooks' (or something else, I don't know yet).

You're more than welcome to use my database driver I made for Panther if you like, it will at least save you a bit of time in creating one of your own.

I took a look at your forum, and I must say I'm very impressed with the code separation techniques going on there. The only criticism I have is that you're using extra loops, but I don't really see how that could be avoided.

I may well pop in at some point to see how it's going

adaur · 2015-06-03 09:55:17

Thank you chris, it's really a basic technique actually. It adds an extra loop indeed, but it doesn't seem to affect performances too much (around 0.03s generation time on index.php with the same number of forums for both FluxBB and FeatherBB).

I might use your DB layer, you did a great job However, I wonder why you didn't use the classical PDO synthax in all queries (prepare) ?

I may well pop in at some point to see how it's going

Help yourself, that's the point of open-source

chris98 · 2015-06-03 10:03:56

It seems like it's not draining anything from the forum then, it must be working quite well.

However, I wonder why you didn't use the classical PDO synthax in all queries (prepare) ?

That's handled by the run() method to make the queries as easy to use and lightweight in the forum itself as possible. It would also mean I'd need a try/catch block around every query to catch exceptions (and even with code separation it's a nightmare to do), at the moment I only need one inside the class itself.

	public function run($sql, $parameters = array(), $type = '')
	{
		global $panther_config;
		$this->sql = trim($sql);

		try
		{
			$ps = $this->prepare($this->sql);
			if ($ps->execute($parameters) !== false)
			{
				if (in_array($type, array('update', 'delete', 'insert')))
					return $ps->rowCount();
				else
				{
					$ps->setFetchMode(PDO::FETCH_ASSOC);
					return $ps;
				}
			}
			else
				$this->error('Unable to execute query', $this->sql, $parameters);
		}
		catch (PDOException $e)
		{
			$this->error($e->getMessage(), $this->sql, $parameters);	
		}
	}

Last edited by chris98 (2015-06-03 10:04:35)

adaur · 2015-06-03 10:06:43

OK, I'll take a closer look when I'm done with MVC then!

chris98 · 2015-06-03 10:10:00

Great, if nothing else we've given each other a few tips

Last edited by chris98 (2015-06-03 10:13:18)

Forums

#26 2015-05-23 12:03:44

Re: FluxBB v1.6?

#27 2015-05-23 22:15:04

Re: FluxBB v1.6?

#28 2015-05-24 11:03:30

Re: FluxBB v1.6?

#29 2015-05-26 07:57:52

Re: FluxBB v1.6?

#30 2015-05-27 21:59:37

Re: FluxBB v1.6?

#31 2015-05-30 16:07:24

Re: FluxBB v1.6?

#32 2015-06-01 15:24:52

Re: FluxBB v1.6?

#33 2015-06-02 06:22:34

Re: FluxBB v1.6?

#34 2015-06-02 07:42:21

Re: FluxBB v1.6?

#35 2015-06-02 11:42:55

Re: FluxBB v1.6?

#36 2015-06-02 11:48:36

Re: FluxBB v1.6?

#37 2015-06-02 12:29:28

Re: FluxBB v1.6?

#38 2015-06-02 13:36:30

Re: FluxBB v1.6?

#39 2015-06-02 13:55:46

Re: FluxBB v1.6?

#40 2015-06-02 15:34:45

Re: FluxBB v1.6?

#41 2015-06-02 16:48:44

Re: FluxBB v1.6?

#42 2015-06-02 17:54:11

Re: FluxBB v1.6?

#43 2015-06-02 19:10:41

Re: FluxBB v1.6?

#44 2015-06-02 20:20:37

Re: FluxBB v1.6?

#45 2015-06-03 09:25:53

Re: FluxBB v1.6?

#46 2015-06-03 09:35:43

Re: FluxBB v1.6?

#47 2015-06-03 09:55:17

Re: FluxBB v1.6?

#48 2015-06-03 10:03:56

Re: FluxBB v1.6?

#49 2015-06-03 10:06:43

Re: FluxBB v1.6?

#50 2015-06-03 10:10:00

Re: FluxBB v1.6?

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