The future of FluxBB

Hemen · 2009-01-11 11:09:37

vnpenguin wrote:

1.2/1.4 : I say NO
2.0 : I can't wait for
and:
Connor wrote:
Version 1.3
We will not be continuing to directly develop version 1.3 ...
...
We do not intend to support this release, ...
So FluxBB dev team pushes me to return to PunBB, it's sure!
The last word (maybe) to dev team: you are killing a nice OSS project. It's sad, so sad!

If you can't wait. Than use punbb I will wait to 2.0 is done. :=

DavidONE · 2009-01-11 11:17:13

Connor and team,

All sounds good to me - good, pragmatic decisions.

Also, very good to see you're encouraging involvement. I'll try and give some time once I've cleared up my current project.

liquidat0r · 2009-01-11 11:17:53

Sounds like a good plan to me.

yemgi · 2009-01-11 12:57:06

Congrats to the team for moving forward. I think you chose the wise way.
Of course lots of people will not be happy that 1.3 is dropped but they have been warned for monthes (years?) that it was not supposed to be used in production and anyway there is a released / supported version at PunBB...
I look forward to using 1.4 Keep up the good work

Franz · 2009-01-11 16:00:05

Connor wrote:

If you read my post I covered that, we will be releasing a version of 1.3 with the obvious issues in 718 fixed, but we won't be recommending people use it or supporting it.

That is the best compromise. Very good decision! Thanks!

yann · 2009-01-11 18:15:16

I believe we will move away too. The unability of punbb to release new features for 4 years now, the selling of the name, the split of the community between punbb and fluxbb, the uncertain roadmap, the misinformation (we're just waiting for some code from Paul to release 1.3 - and now we are looking at a long time frame for the next features to get in) - the loss of the ideal (was supposed to be a simple forum.. I am not sure about so many extensions, hooks, and templating system) - the very bad development way (release early, release often - we've not seen any release in 3 years) - ultimately the bad scalability of the system (just doesn't work for large forums) - and most importantly, the level of bad feedback and lack of positive one will demotivate even the most motivated developpers, and probably is one of the reasons for the call for developpers.

I would place a bet that half the team will leave by the middle of the year and that we won't see fluxbb 2 in 2009 (personal opinion involved).

Too bad there is no good alternative I know of, I was really counting on 1.3.

xable · 2009-01-11 18:16:06

Llike a few others I wonder where Paul is and even if he is OK!

I presumed that he would speak out in the other thread when he was ready/had time but that hasn`t happened and even in this announcement there is no sign of him or even a mention.

Because of Paul`s silence (public at least) and the lack of him being mentioned in these plans it says to me he has ceased all involvement either permanently or temporarily. I hope this is not the case.

Whatever's going on, I`m sure FluxBB will be taken in the best possible direction and that there will be plenty of support for the project, where possible from myself included.

edit: spellcheck

Last edited by xable (2009-01-11 18:19:23)

clintonmass · 2009-01-11 18:26:21

I've been lurking and following this saga, and I'd like to also offer my support for the FluxBB project and team. While the progress has been a bit rocky, I still consider it a good product. I'm sticking with it, because I don't want to go back to PunBB. Informer is doing a HORRIBLE job supporting Feed Digest since they took it over, and I fear the same fate may befall PunBB. I hope not, but I have doubts. The fact they are in control on PunBB is the sole reason I've switched to Flux.

For my needs, FluxBB works well, and I look forward to what's coming next.

Ken

elbekko · 2009-01-11 18:49:04

yann wrote:

I believe we will move away too. The unability of punbb to release new features for 4 years now, the selling of the name, the split of the community between punbb and fluxbb, the uncertain roadmap, the misinformation (we're just waiting for some code from Paul to release 1.3 - and now we are looking at a long time frame for the next features to get in) - the loss of the ideal (was supposed to be a simple forum.. I am not sure about so many extensions, hooks, and templating system) - the very bad development way (release early, release often - we've not seen any release in 3 years) - ultimately the bad scalability of the system (just doesn't work for large forums) - and most importantly, the level of bad feedback and lack of positive one will demotivate even the most motivated developpers, and probably is one of the reasons for the call for developpers.
I would place a bet that half the team will leave by the middle of the year and that we won't see fluxbb 2 in 2009 (personal opinion involved).
Too bad there is no good alternative I know of, I was really counting on 1.3.

Too bad you're leaving, you're a great help in finding performance bottlenecks
And the reason we're continuing 1.2 into 1.4 is to provide a modern but lightweight solution next to the extensible solution of 2.0.

As for the timeline, it really shouldn't take that long, especially now we're involving the community more.

Connor · 2009-01-11 19:15:37

Jérémie wrote:

Aside for the fact you're giving up on people who have been waiting for 3 years or so (most of them who didn't gave up on you, didn't attack you, and several of them trusting you with the fork), here's an idea: choose someone else on the core team as a spokesperson. Verbally assaulting users and contributors won't get the job done.

It wasn't meant to be a verbal assault. The fact is, people on this forum continually complain that PunBB is better, if they feel that is the case, they should use PunBB.

We have also not given up on anyone, we are continuing to develop this project in the way we think is best, this is NOT giving up. Giving up would be releasing 1.3 in a mess and spending the next few years attempting to patch it up badly.

I also want to point out, we are not dropping 1.3 because we don't have the CSS styling, please stop saying that.

---

To the people who have made supportive posts, thank you, it is much appreciated.

Franz · 2009-01-11 19:37:37

yann wrote:

... - the loss of the ideal (was supposed to be a simple forum.. I am not sure about so many extensions, hooks, and templating system) - ...

WHAT???
The fact that there are so many extensions only shows that there are not that much features in the core - and have you ever seen a forum as light, simple and fast as Fluxbb? (ok, Pun doesn't count)

yann wrote:

...and probably is one of the reasons for the call for developpers.

I bet most people here would be more than happy to contribute (including myself). They just realized that it makes sense now.

yann wrote:

Too bad there is no good alternative I know of, I was really counting on 1.3.

Then just stay here and wait for 1.4 (As Connor said, Smartys is already working on it - Smartys is fast and good ).

Connor wrote:

It wasn't meant to be a verbal assault. The fact is, people on this forum continually complain that PunBB is better, if they feel that is the case, they should use PunBB.

The people you are talking about do not think that PunBB is better (if they do, they just don't have a clue). In fact, they wouldn't even have come here, if they had ever thought so.
These people were just complaining about the lack of development, information etc. They DON'T want to go back. They just don't want to wait too long and so they don't see another option.

Last edited by Franz (2009-01-11 19:40:13)

Jérémie · 2009-01-11 20:21:25

Connor wrote:

We have also not given up on anyone

My English failed me, on this instance I meant you let people down.

elbekko · 2009-01-11 20:31:02

Yes, we realise that. But it's a decision we had to make, so not to let everyone down later.

SuperMAG · 2009-01-11 23:14:53

so who are the new developers of 1.4. or when you guys gonno choose, i say start from now.

Connor · 2009-01-11 23:17:38

There aren't new developers for 1.4, Smartys is doing the majority of the work, and you can see the people who have joined the FluxBB Team here its up to them what they work on, some have expressed interest in 2.0 but I'm sure enough people will be contributing to 1.4 to keep it going.

twohawks · 2009-01-12 00:56:58

@devs: Congratulations and good luck on your new vision for your dream! May it faire along smoothly and rewarding-ly ;^)

Also, thanks for including us in your re-sorting of this situation - I know that has been challenging. It seems to me you have reformulated things with fair integrity so far as revisioning of your dream goes, and I can feel that must have been very challenging as well.
I hope someday I can step forward and be of some help.

Cheers, HTH

Ypz · 2009-01-12 01:45:57

I agree with the decisions that have been made and I'm looking forward to 1.4 and 2.0. Good job to the FluxBB development team.

dstroma · 2009-01-12 02:24:29

This doesn't really make sense to me. Why can't you just bring the 1.3 branch to completion? Since 1.3 has taken too long, your solution is to discard it and start over again. Obviously that will take even longer. We kept being told that the only thing left in 1.3 was the CSS so why not just finish it already? Only then could you start the next major version.

I do really like the new approach to development, though. I hope this works out.

Connor · 2009-01-12 06:16:12

dstroma, I realise it seems like this, but the truth is we haven't been happy with 1.3 for quite a long time, and it seemed ridiculous to keep waiting for the final CSS/Markup when this wasn't going to fix our underlying issues with the code.

Say we did get the final CSS and markup today, we'd probably be a month away from a final release, which we wouldn't be happy with, at that point we either choose to live with it for a few years (probably at the cost of losing some of our best people), or try to replace 1.3 almost straight away. We know as soon as we start developing the next version the previous one will be largely ignored by the community (look at mods for 1.2). So we think in a couple of years time this decision will have been for the best.

dstroma · 2009-01-12 06:34:23

Connor wrote:

the truth is we haven't been happy with 1.3 for quite a long time

I didn't realize that, so it does make more sense now. Thanks for keeping us updated.

hsl · 2009-01-13 23:57:02

Why did it take so long to see the extensionsystem is really bad? you're all using it for many months, started developing it yourself. Where did it went wrong en what are you going to do so it won't go
wrong again?

Connor · 2009-01-14 00:00:45

We've had problems with the extension system for a long time, the problem is we had no easy way to fix it, and a release was always just about to happen, obviously when we forked to create FluxBB we didn't want to just start again, even though that may have been the best thing to do.

The problem is it was planned to allow admins to add a couple of features, and became a system to add any feature, which is very messy with the way we have markup and code mixed together.

Reines · 2009-01-14 00:08:30

hsl wrote:

you're all using it for many months, started developing it yourself.

Actually if I'm not mistaken (I wasn't all that active back then) Rickard started developing it himself back at the beginning of 1.3, we just took over later on.

briann · 2009-01-14 03:03:15

as long as this continues to be one of the best forum builds available, i'll stay with flux even if they made a 1.5..

OH, and as long as database changing and all that shit stays easy and the same, then i'm cool.

shedrock · 2009-01-14 11:58:16

I agree with all of Connor's ideas, but seriously guys. You've just got to give your community a time line. I don't think you can just keep leading people on and on in this manner. It appears to me that most of you aren't 100% committed to the project any more, except for Smartys who as far as I remembered retired a while back. So, is Smartys back 10%, 30%, 50% which is it? - I do hope he is back btw.

Anyway, I do respect the fact that this is all free and everyone has their personal lives to live, but really, you have to admit that it has gotten to a ridiculous point now. There seems to be no direction in my opinion even though you all speak of direction. I usually never get involved in these mattes but everyday I come on here and if there is nothing updated as far as updates to Flux, then there are people bickering about the future of Flux. Can't you all see that even though you may think that you are setting out a future for Flux, you're actually pushing your committed members away.

This of course is just my opinion, but I still believe you need a SET date on a release and adhere to it this time.

Shedrock

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