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#1 2008-07-29 16:14:15

Paul
Developer
From: Wales, UK
Registered: 2008-04-27
Posts: 1,653

Tableless Tests

Following on from the previous discussion about going tableless you have now had the chance to see a tableless design in action. I've also had the chance to see it on a populated live board.

My observation is that it is completely successful and worthwhile on index.php because it introduces a lot of flexibility without any downside from what I can see.

In the case of viewforum it also seems to work. The one sticking point is search results. It isn't really possible to put the forum in its own column. The reason is that all the columns apart from the first have widths in em's. (percentages don't work very well). The result is on a narrower display you would end up with the forum column taking a lot more width than the main column.


The only thing worse than finding a bug is knowing I created it in the first place.

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#2 2008-07-29 17:25:25

Connor
Former Developer
Registered: 2008-04-27
Posts: 1,127

Re: Tableless Tests

Zooming out in firefox breaks them.

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#3 2008-07-29 17:35:43

hcgtv
Member
From: Charlotte, NC
Registered: 2008-05-07
Posts: 465
Website

Re: Tableless Tests

Here's my thinking, coming from someone who sees forums doing much more in the future.

In the past, forums were initially setup to handle user support for companies, so the boxy look was fine. Then regular users started grabbing Open Source code and using forums for all kinds of communities, that's when they ran into the boxy look dilemma. They wanted to style the forum to look like their sites and that's when Vanilla came along with a different approach but gave up the familiar forum feel.

The fact that the FluxBB design is so closely tied to the core code, a decision to go tableless or not holds a lot of weight. I don't know the answer, but I do know that in order for styles to get away from the boxy look, a CSS approach would be easier on the web developer.

One last thing, and I don't want to stray the conversation (thankfully we have split/merge if it does). The admin area uses the same scheme, today being Oxygen. Are there plans to make the admin independent of the front end?

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#4 2008-07-29 17:39:06

Paul
Developer
From: Wales, UK
Registered: 2008-04-27
Posts: 1,653

Re: Tableless Tests

As far as admin is concerned, none. But you can do it yourself simply by adding a condition to style.php so admin gets different stylesheets.


The only thing worse than finding a bug is knowing I created it in the first place.

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#5 2008-07-29 18:13:54

Hemen
Member
Registered: 2008-05-14
Posts: 110

Re: Tableless Tests

God joob smile


RIP 2008-2008

Reborn in 2010

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#6 2008-07-29 18:18:10

horus
Member
From: Italy
Registered: 2008-05-13
Posts: 59

Re: Tableless Tests

In the previous discussion I voted for tableless and now that I see it in action I confirm my vote. There's still some minor problem but benefits of the new layout have much value for me. If you disable styles and linearize page the forum remains completely usable and understandable. This is a must for me and, for example, in an italian public administration's web site.

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#7 2008-07-29 18:26:51

Paul
Developer
From: Wales, UK
Registered: 2008-04-27
Posts: 1,653

Re: Tableless Tests

Connor: Those nice people at Mozilla have done page zoom so badly they've managed to imitate an IE6 float dropping bug. Fortunately, the probem can be eliminated (apart from extreme zoom out) by changing a -1px margin to -2px.


The only thing worse than finding a bug is knowing I created it in the first place.

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#8 2008-07-29 18:43:43

orlandu63
Member
From: New Jersey, USA
Registered: 2008-05-17
Posts: 187
Website

Re: Tableless Tests

horus wrote:

In the previous discussion I voted for tableless and now that I see it in action I confirm my vote. There's still some minor problem but benefits of the new layout have much value for me. If you disable styles and linearize page the forum remains completely usable and understandable. This is a must for me and, for example, in an italian public administration's web site.

I totally agree with you. (I actually voted against tableless at first, but now I reconsider.)

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#9 2008-07-29 22:42:16

Jérémie
Member
From: France
Registered: 2008-04-30
Posts: 629
Website

Re: Tableless Tests

Paul wrote:

My observation is that it is completely successful and worthwhile on index.php because it introduces a lot of flexibility without any downside from what I can see.

Absolutely. Tableless is quite successful. Keep it smile

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#10 2008-07-29 23:24:36

Brain in a Jar
Member
Registered: 2008-07-17
Posts: 4
Website

Re: Tableless Tests

It looks and feels streamlined, simple, and easy on the eyes in my opinion. Plus if it bothers an individual that much I can imagine that it wouldn't be that difficult to completely change the way posts are displayed through extensions correct? smile

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#11 2008-07-30 10:45:58

SuperMAG
Member
Registered: 2008-05-10
Posts: 715
Website

Re: Tableless Tests

ok here are my suggestions,

1- Change all the dash dash lines to full lines espacially in profile area, which have allll dash dash lines. dash dash lines make the forum unproffesional, with afcource no offence to anybody.

2- check this image. http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/4521 … 654lf6.jpg

3- i dont like the buttons styles in profile, 4.jpg could you please change it to some thing like this http://www.themespinner.com/demo/?wptheme=Chimera, that is just an example, i want it like when the mouse is over the button it change the color of that button. and when that button page is open also that button color must be changed.

4- in search page could you guys please change the background from white to suitable colour.

5- in the index page, i noticed that the bars of categories and not separated, it would look nice if they were seperated , and also the first bar, the blue one is not necessary, it would be bitter if it was removed, and by the way you choosed nice colours.

other then that absolutely great work, i will be soon upgrading my forum to the latest dev and then i will check the admin area.

Last edited by SuperMAG (2008-07-30 13:15:20)


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#12 2008-07-30 13:51:00

Reines
Administrator
From: Scotland
Registered: 2008-05-11
Posts: 3,197
Website

Re: Tableless Tests

SuperMAG every one of those is skin related and nothing to do with the tableless design. If you made your own skin you could change all of that to how you like. They are also all personal preferences (which I don't happen to agree with) rather than problems.

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#13 2008-07-30 16:27:48

SuperMAG
Member
Registered: 2008-05-10
Posts: 715
Website

Re: Tableless Tests

well i didnt saw any other topic that discuss this matter so i posted here, To Mods: if you can move my post to suitable place please do it.

besides, these are just suggestions to improve the official template. in which most of template corrupted with the dash dash lines which i certainly dont like. and also the (IMPORTANT! Fields marked * must be completed.) which is not necessary.

and there is one tableless matter which is :

5- in the index page, i noticed that the bars of categories and not separated, it would look nice if they were seperated , and also the first bar, the blue one is not necessary, it would be bitter if it was removed, and by the way you choosed nice colours.


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#14 2008-07-30 16:42:31

Reines
Administrator
From: Scotland
Registered: 2008-05-11
Posts: 3,197
Website

Re: Tableless Tests

I don't see how dashed lines "corrupt" the layout, or look un-professional hmm

Also 5) is a style issue, it is not because of the table-less design. Adding a margin in the style would separate them if you wished.

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#15 2008-07-30 18:22:51

SuperMAG
Member
Registered: 2008-05-10
Posts: 715
Website

Re: Tableless Tests

ok what is TABLE LESSSSSS,

and the dashes does look i dont know whats the word but it doesnt look right.


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#16 2008-07-30 19:47:05

raptrex
Member
Registered: 2008-05-11
Posts: 121
Website

Re: Tableless Tests

SuperMAG wrote:

ok what is TABLE LESSSSSS,

and the dashes does look i dont know whats the word but it doesnt look right.

look at the source code, you wont see tables

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#17 2008-07-30 19:57:36

SuperMAG
Member
Registered: 2008-05-10
Posts: 715
Website

Re: Tableless Tests

so you saying there isnt visual effect. hows that.


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#18 2008-07-30 20:16:19

orlandu63
Member
From: New Jersey, USA
Registered: 2008-05-17
Posts: 187
Website

Re: Tableless Tests

*resists urge*

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#19 2008-07-31 09:57:48

elbekko
Former Developer
From: Leuven, Belgium
Registered: 2008-04-30
Posts: 1,132
Website

Re: Tableless Tests

*gives in to urge*
*kills and maims brutally*

Tables are HTML elements, meant for displaying tabular data. They were used to represent the forum and topic lists, which, if you have half of a brain, can from that sentence already be figured out to be incorrect.
They were removed in favour of some more flexible markup, which is how it is now.

Got it?


Ben
SVN repository for my extensions - The thread
Quickmarks 0.5
“Question: How does a large software project get to be one year late? Answer: One day at a time!” - Fred Brooks

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#20 2008-07-31 10:41:16

SuperMAG
Member
Registered: 2008-05-10
Posts: 715
Website

Re: Tableless Tests

yea, yea whatever, they represents forum and topic list thats it, well i still cant see any visual difference. well i dont care that much now. since it dosent have a problem with me, i thought it was other things that i mentioned.


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#21 2008-07-31 10:44:57

Pandark
Member
From: France
Registered: 2008-05-17
Posts: 18
Website

Re: Tableless Tests

I don't know if...
Well. Wouldn't it be good to use dl+dt+dd instead of ul+li to show that items have direct relationship with each other ?
(the only reasons I can see now is that we can't use h3 in the same time... or someone disagree with the use of definition lists for anything else than definitions)


.._ -Pandark- _..
Serial Dreamer

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#22 2008-07-31 10:46:56

Christian
Member
From: Vienna, Austria
Registered: 2008-05-10
Posts: 463
Website

Re: Tableless Tests

I'm sorry I can't test it on the iPhone yet. Need to wait for the next shipping to austria.


http://www.fluxbb.de - Deutschsprachiges FluxBB Supportforum

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#23 2008-08-03 22:45:35

Pandark
Member
From: France
Registered: 2008-05-17
Posts: 18
Website

Re: Tableless Tests

Pandark wrote:

I don't know if...
Well. Wouldn't it be good to use dl+dt+dd instead of ul+li to show that items have direct relationship with each other ?
(the only reasons I can see now is that we can't use h3 in the same time... or someone disagree with the use of definition lists for anything else than definitions)

Not worth being answered ?


.._ -Pandark- _..
Serial Dreamer

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#24 2008-08-06 21:29:56

Christian
Member
From: Vienna, Austria
Registered: 2008-05-10
Posts: 463
Website

Re: Tableless Tests

looks good on iphone smile


http://www.fluxbb.de - Deutschsprachiges FluxBB Supportforum

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