Conversation with #fluxbb

Conversation with #fluxbb on Sun 20 Mar 2011 10:38:10 GMT:
(10:38:10) The topic for #fluxbb is: FluxBB - light and modern PHP forum software | http://fluxbb.org | Current stable release: v1.4.4
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(20:21:07) The topic for #fluxbb is: FluxBB - light and modern PHP forum software | http://fluxbb.org | Current stable release: v1.4.4
(20:21:07) mode (+o Reines) by ChanServ
(20:22:44) Ruckus [~ruckus@c-98-212-235-174.hsd1.il.comcast.net] entered the room.
(20:27:51) Kossu [~Tatta@ttt.karen.abo.fi] entered the room.
(20:56:48) quy [4405f8ec@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.5.248.236] entered the room.
(20:57:20) Reines: hey
(20:57:50) Kossu: hi
(20:57:51) shlorine: Sup rhyynes
(20:57:54) shlorine: n k0ssu
(20:58:07) Kossu: omfg who invited shlorine?
(20:58:11) shlorine: Loch Rhyyness
(20:58:11) Reines: no-one
(20:58:13) lie2815: hi
(20:58:14) shlorine: new monster
(20:58:41) shlorine: I thought this was a free interwebz Kossu 
(20:58:55) quy: hi
(20:59:58) shlorine: WINNING
(21:00:46) Reines: so yeah I don't think we have a huge amount to discuss, but does anyone have any bright ideas about https://fluxbb.org/forums/viewtopic.php?id=5291?
(21:01:11) lie2815: those things are scaring me ^^
(21:02:06) Reines: I think the stuff Garciat posted is a bit more complicated than we want, and still doesn't solve (2) really
(21:02:32) lie2815: it definitely is waaaay to complicated
(21:03:59) lie2815: in my eyes, the 1.3 system had a few possible disadvantages, but nothing really bad. and i never heard anyone complain that something is impossible to do
(21:04:39) lie2815: e.g. not sure whether removing conditions would be necessary
(21:05:08) lie2815: btw: how would queries be modified by extensions? i suppose there would still be some kind of hook where one could access the query object?
(21:05:18) Reines: yeah in a way I'm leaning towards just going with having the conditions as a string like we did in 1.3 - at least then it's simple
(21:05:46) shlorine: g?r du d? Kossu kollar bb eller?
(21:06:38) lie2815: i have a rather specific question about your code, though
(21:06:40) lie2815: https://github.com/fluxbb/database/blob/master/dialect.php#L20
(21:06:40) Reines: sure either a hook as before in between the stuff i posted and the $result = $db->query($query, $params); or if we go down the wordpress action/filters approach we could have a filter which catches queries when they are ran and lets you edit them (i.e. you'd have $db->query($query, $params, 'query_name'); then an extension could filter queries with the id query_name
(21:07:03) lie2815: so just one hook inside the query function? smart.
(21:08:00) lie2815: anyway, the switch-case stuff in the code i linked to is not necessary in my eyes. shouldn't it be something like this instead:
(21:08:08) lie2815: $query->complie()
(21:08:13) lie2815: *compile
(21:08:35) Reines: then inside the SelectQuery etc you'd need a switch to decide if you want to compile it for MySQL/SQLite/PostgreSQL :P
(21:08:48) Reines: either that or you'd need to have a MySQLSelectQuery and so on..
(21:09:44) Reines: (at the moment the SQLDialect class is extended for SQLite and PostgreSQL, and they override certain parts of it, such as truncate()
(21:10:49) lie2815: so the dialect class is the part that assembles the query? and *that* part is of course overridden for each driver
(21:10:51) lie2815: gotcha
(21:11:08) FSX: hi
(21:11:12) Reines: hey FSX
(21:11:25) FSX: Kill me
(21:11:46) FSX: I worked two days on an Assembly assignemnt and it still doesn't work
(21:12:09) Reines: rofl
(21:12:26) lie2815: i looove that stuff
(21:12:33) lie2815: oops, sorry
(21:12:59) FSX: But we dont really have lesson for it on school and no books. Just cryptic examples without comments.
(21:13:27) FSX: And the teachers are not able to do the assignments, because most of them don't know assembly.
(21:14:02) Reines: at least you have it. the students at the uni here are retarded, even by 4th year they struggle with things like constructors in java
(21:14:28) FSX: I think C was a better option. There are atleast books for that.
(21:14:35) lie2815: not like assembly is going to help with the confusion, reines
(21:14:48) FSX: And it's useful. Some weird dialect of Assembly is not.
(21:14:58) Reines: i think the only thing that'd help the confusion of the idiots here would be a shotgun
(21:15:53) Reines: anyway, should we maybe just go with making conditions strings, then if we come up with a better approach sometime between now and when beta1 we can change it?
(21:18:00) lie2815: yes, yes, yes. we should come up with some extremely complicated example extensions by that point
(21:18:19) lie2815: and we'll see if we can handle complicated queries in the core. much more important actually.
(21:19:06) FSX: What did I miss?
(21:19:19) Reines: just trying to decide on a solution for https://fluxbb.org/forums/viewtopic.php?id=5291
(21:19:28) Reines: (how to handle conditions in the query builder)
(21:20:41) Reines: another thing we need to come up with is support for altering tables etc, but that can pretty much just be implemented the same way SelectQuery etc are so isn't really a problem
(21:20:53) FSX: That example just looks like a query string, but more complicated.
(21:21:01) lie2815: yup
(21:21:18) lie2815: can't we have a nicer factory method? i think the code is ugly ;)
(21:21:26) Reines: hm?
(21:21:50) Reines: oh for writing a query?
(21:22:11) lie2815: yup
(21:22:17) FSX: How complicated do you want to make it? I don't think there's a good way to replace a simple string. ORMs are limited too.
(21:22:58) Reines: lie2815: not easily really since lots of parts of the queries are optional, and you'll get used to it - the 1.3 way looked huge/ugly too at first
(21:23:00) lie2815: we definitely need to be careful. we don't want a system that can handle every possible (worst) case again
(21:23:10) lie2815: reines: good point
(21:23:44) FSX: Why not make some use cases first (what extensions do you expect?) and try to make a solution for that.
(21:24:18) Reines: FSX: we were leaning towards just going with a simple string, and if any amazing idea hits us between now and beta1 we can handle it then - otherwise yeah we can make some extensions along the way and see how it goes
(21:24:47) FSX: Ok
(21:25:16) lie2815: the rest is more or less complete if i see it correctly, right?
(21:25:30) lie2815: what i mean is query types etc.?
(21:25:44) Reines: yeah, just the conditions and then the alter table/create table/add field/etc
(21:25:50) lie2815: i guess we still need to handle the different database types, but that can wait
(21:25:55) lie2815: oh, good
(21:26:04) Reines: I've made a separate ticket for them - they aren't quite as important yet since they are only used by install/db_update
(21:26:38) Reines: I've handled what I can remember off the top of my head for SQLite/PostgreSQL already, though haven't tested either yet since we don't have the new module in place yet
(21:27:01) lie2815: how are we going to adapt the new system? move the "model" code to an "API" first, or "convert" the queries first?
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(21:28:12) lie2815: gave that back to you, reines: http://fluxbb.org/development/core/tickets/326/#oqq0dsz157
(21:28:19) jejeje: hello
(21:28:26) Reines: haha cheers
(21:28:27) Reines: hi
(21:28:35) jejeje: hey 
(21:28:38) jejeje: hows going
(21:28:51) Reines: well we had API for milestone 2. I think either way around we're going to need to revisit it all again slightly, since the new database module uses fetchAll which returns all the records as an array, instead of looping 1 at a time like before - so if we were to do the API first we'd need to have some temporary code to handle that
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(21:29:13) Reines: so I'd probably go with changing the queries then moving them to an API after
(21:29:26) jejeje: does anyone understand the css style ?
(21:29:28) Reines: the other option is at the same time, but that is probably a bit too much at once
(21:30:01) lie2815: ok, makes sense
(21:30:26) lie2815: i'm sure we can split up that task, after having some scripts converted as examples
(21:30:52) jejeje: i have a question about the css , the button that says post reply for example on this website fluxbb its available on the top and at the bottom on each viewtopic.php on my site its only available at the top do you know why ? my css file can be found here http://fluxbb.org/forums/viewtopic.php?pid=39655#p39655
(21:31:24) Reines: yeah both are quite repetitive/easy, once we have the idea done. though when it comes to the API I think we should probably make a list of all queries and what they do, then try organize that into a sensible API - rather than just jump in and start trying to move stuff around
(21:31:53) Reines: sorry jejeje we're having a meeting at the moment - could you post on the forums and we'll try help you afterwards?
(21:32:05) lie2815: jejeje: we have a developer meeting right now. i see you asked the questions on the forums (http://fluxbb.org/forums/viewtopic.php?pid=39737#p39737). can you please wait for answer there?
(21:32:16) jejeje: haha ok bad time
(21:32:29) Reines: :P
(21:32:38) lie2815: you can also wait about an hour and maybe we can answer it here ;)
(21:33:08) Reines: btw did anyone have a look at gettext implementations we could potentially use?
(21:33:11) lie2815: Reines: wait a second. didn't you say convert the queries first and then move them into an api? that would be a little contradictory
(21:33:19) Reines: why?
(21:33:21) lie2815: besides you`
(21:33:29) jejeje: nah im exauhsted and going to bed but try to answer my question at the forums after you finish :D
(21:33:44) jejeje: tc guys
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(21:34:03) lie2815: [22:33] <@Reines> yeah both are quite repetitive/easy, once we have the idea done. though when it comes to the API I think we should probably make a list of all queries and what they do, then try organize that into a sensible API - rather than just jump in and start trying to move stuff around
(21:34:52) Reines: well i mean't as we convert the queries to the new system also take a note of where each one is and what it does, then when they are all converted we will also have a complete list of all things the API has to support
(21:35:08) lie2815: ah gotcha
(21:35:12) Reines: opposed to just starting to move queries into an API one at a time, then ending up with a messy disorganized API
(21:35:19) lie2815: a special wiki page for that would probably be a good idea
(21:35:21) Oldskool: evening
(21:35:25) lie2815: heyho
(21:35:29) Reines: yeah
(21:35:30) Reines: hey Oldskool
(21:35:46) Oldskool: sorry for being late, gonna do a quick read-up :)
(21:36:01) lie2815: np, only talked about the query stuff so far
(21:36:02) Reines: no problem :P
(21:36:35) Sia-: hello Reinesand all others
(21:36:40) lie2815: quick off-topic question: what's the difference between alpha5 and beta1?
(21:36:42) Sia-: Reines**
(21:36:45) lie2815: hey Sia
(21:37:05) Sia-: what is about the converter to fluxxb from phpbb3
(21:37:34) lie2815: Sia: did we already talk about that? if not, please send me an email at franz@fluxbb.org
lie2815 lumines 
(21:38:30) Sia-: i know him , i send him my forum table to make test with it but since 20 Feb is nomore active on the converter project in github
(21:38:58) Reines: urh lie2815, not sure :P I guess we probably wont actually release anything for each alpha milestone, but when it gets to the beta1 milestone we can actually release a beta package for people to use
(21:39:59) lie2815: yes, exactly. isn
(21:40:01) Sia-: i'm really surprise about the archlinux forum with fluxbb!
(21:40:14) lie2815: alpha5 should be the finished first beta when it's done
(21:40:30) lie2815: sia: that's my email?
(21:40:42) Sia-: its depending on server or php interpreter or is fluxbb engine so fas?!
(21:40:54) Sia-: lie2815 are you the german guy?
(21:41:38) FSX: Sia-: FluxBB is fast. ;D But it also depends on your server configuration.
(21:41:47) lie2815: i am german, yes ;)
(21:42:02) FSX: BTW
(21:42:17) FSX: lie2815: I found some nice music again. Want to hear it? ;D
(21:42:24) lie2815: lol, nope
(21:42:29) Sia-: lie2815 ich hab dich gemailt
(21:42:31) FSX: C'mon
(21:44:06) Reines: anyway, did anyone have an opinion on any of the gettext implementations that we could use?
(21:44:34) FSX: Didn't already discuss that partially at the last meeting?
(21:44:46) FSX: Use a gettext reader and cache it to PHP.
(21:45:06) Reines: yeah though we didn't decide on a specific library to use or if to write our own
(21:45:13) Reines: we just came up with a list of a few options
(21:45:14) FSX: Oh ok
(21:46:00) FSX: Do you want to read the binary .mo files or the text-based .po files?
(21:46:30) Reines: doesn't really matter, though yeah I noticed one implementation on GitHub only do .po, and the rest I found seemed to only do .mo
(21:47:16) Reines: my vote would probably go for PHP-Gettext (https://github.com/dsp/PHP-Gettext/blob/master/PHP.php) since it is nicely encapsulated in a class and relatively simple/easy to follow code compared to some of the others I found...
(21:47:19) Oldskool: are there any differences in parsing time or is that fractional?
(21:47:37) FSX: I don't know
(21:47:52) Reines: my guess would be not much, though maybe it's worth downloading them and doing some tests
(21:48:27) Oldskool: sounds like a good idea. if one is noticably faster then the other, then that would be an advantage.
(21:51:24) lie2815: neat, it's pretty small
(21:51:46) Reines: you mean PHP-Gettext?
(21:51:53) lie2815: yup
(21:52:01) lie2815: doesn't mean i understand the code though :-/
(21:52:05) Reines: yeah, and it just parses all the translations into an array, so we can really easily cache it
(21:52:46) Reines: I'll download the different ones I can find and do some benchmarks after we're done here, unless anyone else wants to do it?
(21:53:02) Kossu: Shlorine wants to do it
(21:53:14) Reines: he can die in a fire
(21:53:42) lie2815: i'll leave it to you :P
(21:53:46) FSX: Shlorine?
(21:53:57) lie2815: we can see what we don't have tickets for for alpha1
(21:54:11) lie2815: and see who takes what one. i think at least one ticket should not be done by you, reines ;)
(21:54:22) Reines: lol
(21:54:46) Reines: oh that reminds me, did we reach a decision for PHP 5.2 vs 5.3?
(21:54:53) Reines: 5.3 would make #214 100x easier :P
(21:54:55) Kossu: 5.3 ftw
(21:55:12) FSX: 5.3.
(21:55:12) Reines: though to be fair, even fluxbb.org VPS is running 5.2 still
(21:55:43) shlorine: stfu Reines 
(21:55:45) Kossu: most small forums are ran on shared hosts too which makes it impossible to update php
(21:55:52) shlorine: do what Kossu 
(21:55:57) Kossu: fuck off shlorine
(21:56:29) lie2815: i think it's still too early for 5.3
(21:56:44) Reines: yeah I vaguely agree, but I wish it wasn't :(
(21:56:58) Kossu: it is too early if you're after the primary segment of users
(21:57:09) Kossu: but jesus fuck, php 5.3.6 is out and ppl are still on 5.2
(21:57:15) Reines: any idea what the requirements for wordpress/phpbb are?
(21:57:20) Kossu: well a lot of ppl are still on 4 lol
(21:57:26) Reines: hey die my VPS is still on 5.2 :(
(21:57:26) lie2815: or we can just take our time and then force people to use 1.4 if they don't have it. but that's too risky currently. remember that it's a jump from php4 already
(21:57:42) Kossu: Reines, PHP version 4.3 or greater
(21:57:48) Reines: meh
(21:57:56) Kossu: only runs on MySQL tho
(21:58:13) Reines: drupal is 5.2 now
(21:58:19) Reines: I guess we need to go for 5.2
(21:58:29) Kossu: Drupal is quite nasty 
(21:58:30) Reines: either that or just take as long as we can making 2.0
(21:58:45) Kossu: lets like make 2.0 for really long
(21:58:47) Kossu: then scrap it
(21:58:49) Kossu: and to 1.5
(21:58:51) Kossu: do*
(21:58:52) Reines: rofl
(21:58:55) lie2815: lol
(21:59:06) lie2815: nice idea. we should publish this chat log on the front page
(21:59:28) lie2815: together with our pictures and current location
(21:59:46) Kossu: well I don't live in France, so I am safe
(22:00:02) Sia-: Kossu fluxbb should think about designing and developing for IE6 or less too :)
(22:00:21) Kossu: yeah def, we should all change back to IE6
(22:00:35) Reines: hm back in a bit, phone call!
(22:02:28) Reines: btw lie2815, bitch at people to help with the site/wiki, that was all that was left on my list anyway :P
(22:02:41) lie2815: kk
(22:02:45) lie2815: PEOPLE!!!
(22:03:04) lie2815: including me. we need a wiki task force, ready to go, in three minutes
(22:03:10) lie2815: something like that, reines?
(22:06:37) lie2815: now that worked :-/
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(22:12:10) lie2815: http://fluxbb.org/development/core/tickets/?m=10&s=all
(22:12:22) lie2815: seriously, guys, we should split up these tickets
(22:12:41) lie2815: fsx, oldskool, quy
(22:18:00) Reines: lol, fail
(22:18:19) lie2815: like, completely
(22:18:32) lie2815: you try, with all your authority
(22:18:54) Reines: tbh im more than happy to do those tickets, it's much more interesting since it's all new stuff, so unless anyone specifically wants to take some I don't mind :P
(22:20:07) lie2815: tss well thx
(22:20:21) lie2815: dude, the new google analytics is friggin amazing
(22:20:28) Reines: new? whats new?
(22:20:38) lie2815: like everything
(22:20:45) lie2815: didn't get a beta invite, eh? :P
(22:20:59) Reines: guess not :(
(22:21:00) Reines: lol
(22:22:03) lie2815: https://services.google.com/fb/forms/newanalyticssignup/?utm_source=gablog&utm_medium=blog&utm_content=announce&utm_campaign=newga-blog
(22:22:07) lie2815: well, anyway
(22:22:38) lie2815: i will finish my last ticket for v1.4.5 tonight or tomorrow mornign
(22:22:47) lie2815: do you think we can release it tomorrow?
(22:22:59) lie2815: i can take care of the release if you don't have the time
(22:23:20) FSX: lie2815: I don't have time. Assembly shit takes too much time. :/ I'm already a week behind. The I think the whole class is.
(22:23:52) lie2815: that's fine. and understandable
(22:24:11) Reines: hm I got poker after work tomorrow, so I can't do anything tomorrow, unless I lose really fast :P If you want to do the release then sure go for it, but we should probably aim to do #319 before the release if we can, but certain RedHat based distros seem to ship PCRE without unicode-property support
(22:24:37) Reines: urh but = since*
(22:24:38) lie2815: do you have any clue what can be done about it?
(22:24:51) lie2815: just lose :P
(22:25:00) lie2815: can't take too long ^^
(22:25:09) Reines: we can make it fall back to the old regular expressions we used before, which work fine for latin languages at least
(22:26:05) Reines: If you want to sort #343 tomorrow I could aim to do #319 on Tue then we could release Tue/Wed
(22:26:19) Reines: unless you want to take over #319 and do it tomorrow
(22:27:04) lie2815: what would i have to do? check the old regexp and then fallback based on what?
(22:27:10) lie2815: some php ini setting?
(22:28:27) Reines: preg_match etc return false if an error occurs, so if it returns false opposed to an int then it would fall back and try again with the old regex
(22:28:39) Reines: I think that should work
(22:30:44) lie2815: k, if you assign it to me with a little reminder about that i will try
(22:31:43) lie2815: should i get a Windows Server Administration Fundamentals certificate for free?
(22:31:45) Reines: alright. If you have trouble or don't have time then I can look at it on Tue
(22:31:55) Reines: if it doesn't involve any effort lol
(22:32:23) lie2815: neat. what did you want to talk about with caching?
(22:33:49) lie2815: ts, effort. a 6-hour seminar and a little test
(22:34:09) Reines: lol
(22:35:10) Reines: urh one thing I was gonna ask was should we strip out some of the more obscure cache adapters I had included and have them available as downloads, or just leave them in the core? though to be honest now I think about it, I don't see any reason to strip them out, other than to make it harder for people to use them...
(22:35:35) lie2815: and make the package smaller
(22:35:50) lie2815: but that part of light-weight is not _that_ important anymore ;9
(22:36:26) Reines: yeah they add a few kb, if anyone complains about that then they can die
(22:36:53) lie2815: you have a weird policy when it comes to complaining users ;)
(22:37:15) Reines: lol
(22:38:34) Kossu: lie2815, depends if u wana work for a retard in the future
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(23:53:38) FSX: Goodnight
(23:53:56) FSX left the room (quit: Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4).