The future of FluxBB (Page 2 of 9)

1.2 is the culmination of years of punBB evolution and incremental refinement. It is the most stable, solid and widely implemented code base here. I think the old saying applies: If it ain't broke, don't fix it! Of course in the unlikely event it does break, do fix it (and apply security fixes as well), but its features should be frozen to keep the many current 1.2 users running smoothly.

1.3 should not be released until it is really truly finished (i.e. its requirements are met). Call it 2.0 if you must (and with all the major changes, this is probably a good idea), but I see no problem with staying the course and keeping it 1.3. (After all, there is historical precedent in the project's version numbering system - yes?) But please, take whatever time is necessary to: Do it right the first time! The developers will need to put up with some impatience from the community (some of whom may even leave), but once it is done, and it is good, all will be forgiven and happiness will return.

But beware of feature creep. It can kill a project - (it killed the last company I worked for due to delayed release). When working on a major project (like FluxBB), it is very easy to think up new improvements that can be made, but one must not succumb to the temptation to incorporate them right away if they require significant design changes. Thus, to be successful, it is critical that the software requirements be well defined in advance and once those requirements are met, then it is done. Period.

For me, the extension system is the main requirement for 1.3/2.0. And I don't mind waiting for it, but I would like to be informed of a ball park release date, because if it is realistically 6 months to a year (which seems to be the case), then I'll just go ahead and (happily) use 1.2 in the meantime. (One thing I've learned in 30 years of programming is that software always takes longer than your first estimate - frequently: 5-10 times longer!)

Cheers and keep up the good work. Good thread BTW.

We're well aware of that, and we've done that. But we also realise that sometimes a feature is too essential to keep neglecting, like the templating system.
Let me assure you, don't worry about feature creep. If anything, features get removed more often than added

What kind of changes would make this software v2.0, if not those we are experiencing now?

Release the last working 1.3 as it is (the few style bugs can be fixed quite easily). And leave anything else for 2.0. This would also give you more feedback on the new 1.3 features which then can be considered while working on 2.0!

I absolutely agree Cornor's plan.

1.2 has existed for over 3 years. The structure now became so old, why not just release a new version which is based on it to end the life of 1.2? So there should be 1.4.

I don't think 1.3 should be released. If it were released, people still had to spend much time on upgrading their forum to 1.3. Why not only release 2.0? People just need to spend much time on upgrading their forum once, not twice.

1.3 looks like a small improvement, and 1.3 is fresh no longer. Why not do a larger improvement such as developing 2.0? 2.0 would be a revolution of FluxBB, and FluxBB will rewrite the history of Internet forums.

I hope there would be more people who want to support Cornor's plan. His plan is absolutely the best plan for FluxBB.

as i said, if paul wants more time give him more time by just doing these stuff:

paul do mini css fixes the small important problems and then release beta 3. (should be release in a week at most)
and when paul complete his markup css, release RC1. (should be released at most 2 or 2.5 or 3 months)
and then small bugfixes in RC2. (should be done in 3 weeks)
Then Final. (give it 2 more weeks of no bugs)

in MY openion that is the best strategy, or if you want to change the 1.3 to 2.0, then just change it.

Thinking (unless the plan of this topic is to get away from angry posts lol)

Last edited by SuperMAG (2008-12-26 14:27:21)

Becko, i mean no offense with this. It sounds like part of the plan is trying to fix some dealy in the release schedule with version strategy rearrangements.Though, I believe there's is absolute no intention to do so.

So it turns out that a more propper name for 1.3 would be 2.0. I defentely agree with that. However i don't think upgradding the version numer now, when there is already betas out there, is necessary, at all. It's too late for that.

Fluxbb already has a template system, but it is used in a too minimalist way. All the contents should go individual placeholders, including the ones in the post design which needs to be looped.
This would IMO be a fairly good improvment and it would make site integrations a breeze.
Now that we already have 1.3 betas, why not using a full blown template system as 2.0 biggest change? After all it would be THE release with a clean core, zero html.

As for the extension system... what's missing on the current (1.3) one? Looks awsome to me...

Hello Connor, I have been running punbb for more than 4 years, seen a lot of work done and sent several patches myself.

I have to strongly disagree to your proposition though, and to some comments that were made before "get it right the first time". I believe you can't get anything right the first time, and am a fervent believer of the "Release early, release often". Read about the agile development model!

I remember exactly three years ago, it was written "punbb 1.3 will be released before christmas" - that was in 2005... this is also the reason you now want to change the version number to 2.0 instead of 1.3. You keep adding features, without stabilizing the current base.

I believe *nobody* expects a perfect 2.0. People would prefer a rock solid, simple 2.0 (which is all fluxbb is about), with regular releases adding functions, and an easy upgrade system. If not what is most likely to happen is that you will continue to develop without releasing, lose many users, at some point want to rewrite the code you wrote 2 years ago after starting to work for 1.3, and then ultimately get bored as you lost all your users and the workload just became too huge.

Please reconsider your position - you don't have enough people to maintain two branches. Maintain 1.2 with security fixes, release a rock solid, evolutive 2.0, and then add features, regularly, making sure the upgrades are easy.

1.3 has been developed so long, and it's no longer fresh. Why shouldn't 1.4 use what Paul has done for 1.3? And people could really develop better and better themes and functions for 2.0 in the future.

Most of guys are lazy. If 1.3 existed and 2.0 were also being developed, people wouldn't want to upgrade their forum to 1.3 or support the 2.0 plan. There shouldn't be three projects of FluxBB.

I know 1.3 changed a lot from 1.3 because I've touched 1.3 for over two years. But its "version number" looks like a small improvement, why not use 2.0 to tell people it's really a large improvement?

I don't think you've been reading carefully what I've said.    The way I see it now, there are at least three ideas about this floating around:

1. Have separate devs for the 1.2 (1.4) branch (as suggested at least by Smartys, Elbekko, me…)

2. Develop both branches with the same developers (yann, …?)

3. Stop developing 1.2 (only maintaining security fixes) and focus all efforts on the 1.3 (2.0) branch instead (Rich, ridgerunner)

You seem to be under the impression that I support C, and still want to use 1.2.

No one said that.  But fact is, many people don't need those features, at least not yet.  Things like UTF-8 support are (in my opinion) much more widely needed.  And like Smartys said, "The idea is to support 1.2 for the many people who can not or will not upgrade to 1.3 while also developing a more modern version of 1.2".  In the long term, using an obsolete forum software would be a bad idea, but like I said, I would support further development of the 1.2 branch, while the current dev team would have less pressure with developing the 2.0 branch.

You're making it look like I was diminishing it.  I'm not.  Some people just don't need it and/or the current methods (hacking the code manually) work well enough.

For people who want an extensible forum as opposed to minimalistic, the extension system will be a good addition.  For people who don't need extensions, it's useless.  That is my point.

Last edited by jmp (2008-12-27 08:45:42)

Yes, I vote for C.