1 Topic by Anatoly

  • From: Russia
  • Registered: 2008-05-12
  • Posts: 68

Topic: PunBB comment on FluxBB announcement

Here is an official comment of PunBB owners:

A number of PunBB key developers have decided to start their own fork of PunBB called FluxBB. We understand and respect the developers’ decision to be independent and have a complete control over their “baby”.

We reckon on fruitful cooperation with FluxBB community in further development of the core functionality so that to provide growth and compatibility of extensions by means of sharing the code. We suppose that such cooperation will let us create a unique synergy, in which the project’s key core components and a set of extensions will be developed simultaneously by both the open-source community and the professional team of our company. In such a way, we hope to avoid problems of both pure company-driven and pure community-driven projects. This will let us achieve our aim in PunBB: creating a forum which is best in all respects.

However, FluxBB and PunBB will not be clone projects. They will differ in sets of extensions as well as in some functional and interface solutions, on which the teams may disagree. Thus, users will benefit as usual because they’ll be able to choose whatever suits them best.

Finally, we would like to congratulate Rickard Andersson and wish him a happy marriage. We hope he will be able to set us on the right path if we fail to give his “baby” proper care (actually, he’s now got two of them – PunBB and FluxBB).

Crossposted to PunBB Forums

Carpe diem

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2 Reply by Vovochka

  • From: Ukraine
  • Registered: 2008-05-10
  • Posts: 165

Re: PunBB comment on FluxBB announcement

Толя, ну а ты сам веришь что народ вернется на punbb? Там голяк остался-то smile

EDIT: This is an English speaking forum, please translate.

Last edited by Paul (2008-05-14 13:28:56)

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3 Reply by StevenBullen

  • Registered: 2008-05-03
  • Posts: 207

Re: PunBB comment on FluxBB announcement

English please.

Me: Blog | Twitter
Follow FluxBB on Twitter

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4 Reply by Anatoly

  • From: Russia
  • Registered: 2008-05-12
  • Posts: 68

Re: PunBB comment on FluxBB announcement

Vovochka wrote:

Толя, ну а ты сам веришь что народ вернется на punbb? Там голяк остался-то :)

StevenBullen wrote:

English please.

Vovochka translated by me wrote:

Anatoly, do you really believe that people will come back to PunBB? No one  left there :)

I personally suppose that from now PunBB will grow into a FluxBB-compatible forum with its' own bunch of extensions and little core modifications. It is up to users to choose if they will need one :)

Carpe diem

Anatoly's Website

5 Reply by La`me

  • From: Southport, Uk
  • Registered: 2008-05-03
  • Posts: 370

Re: PunBB comment on FluxBB announcement

Before the extensions for FluxBB can work on PunBB tho, They will need to be altered alittle, And PunBB will need to get on with getting 1.3 finished.

6 Reply by kpdesign

  • From: off the beaten path
  • Registered: 2008-05-09
  • Posts: 67

Re: PunBB comment on FluxBB announcement

Anatoly -

I appreciate the time you took to come here and post. I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but I find it amazing that it has taken over 5 days for you to respond to the announcement that the development team was forking the project and leaving PunBB behind, for the most part, and when you finally do respond, you ask for a cooperative effort to continue development of the 1.3 core. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I am under the impression that you have your own programmers - are they not able to work with the 1.3 code you have and continue the development in the direction that you would like PunBB to go?

The only thing that I see a "cooperative effort" between PunBB and FluxBB bringing about is a deep divide in both communities, as the end users will be confused as to which project they should support.

This is just my opinion (so please don't flame me for it), but I think that you and your development team need to sit down and decide the direction you want the PunBB project to go, and begin work on making that happen. Expecting the FluxBB developers to keep your project alive is an unreasonable request to me.

FluxBB is alive and well and continuing forward in its development. Some of the community members (myself included) made the decision to move here and support FluxBB in any way that we can.

All that said, I wish for the PunBB project to continue to grow and much success in the future. Good luck!

Last edited by kpdesign (2008-05-14 13:53:20)

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7 Reply by sirena

  • From: GMT +10
  • Registered: 2008-05-10
  • Posts: 120

Re: PunBB comment on FluxBB announcement

It would be great if some compatibility could be preserved at some level between PunBB and FluxBB going forward - forum developers and users would get the best of both worlds in terms of richer product options and the whole project would benefit from the network effects of broader use that would arise from two teams working away.

The guys on both teams should perhaps agree on some common standards or goals for the 1.3 branch at least - perhaps at the extension specs or something - to offer some level of compatibility or interoperability.

Maybe at v2.0 both projects can morph into independent gene pools, but in the mean time it would be beneficial all round if you could get some detente happening and perhaps agree on something that would let pun and flux technically inter-operate nicely for a while.

I mean you can have variation in features and options and schedules and management approaches but it would be nice if the two worlds of code didn't become completely incompatible with each other with the next 1.3 release.

8 Reply by Anatoly

  • From: Russia
  • Registered: 2008-05-12
  • Posts: 68

Re: PunBB comment on FluxBB announcement

kpdesign wrote:

I appreciate the time you took to come here and post. I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but I find it amazing that it has taken over 5 days for you to respond to the announcement that the development team was forking the project and leaving PunBB behind, for the most part, and when you finally do respond, you ask for a cooperative effort to continue development of the 1.3 core. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I am under the impression that you have your own programmers - are they not able to work with the 1.3 code you have and continue the development in the direction that you would like PunBB to go?

You are right. But the answer is: we like the way FluxBB goes now. We will just follow the same way for a while, until we will have other vision on some critical moments (if we will at all). We did always wanted PunBB to be developed by the same team in the same direction. That is why we almost did no commits into the core, but put lots our recourses into extensions development.

(Please note, that all these above and following is my personal opinion.)

kpdesign wrote:

The only thing that I see a "cooperative effort" between PunBB and FluxBB bringing about is a deep divide in both communities, as the end users will be confused as to which project they should support.

I suppose some time will go and everything will take proper place.

Of course, it is much more interesting and inspiring for community members to join just forked FluxBB. But later each projects will take its` niche and will have its` own community (possibly crossing with each other).

kpdesign wrote:

This is just my opinion (so please don't flame me for it), but I think that you and your development team need to sit down and decide the direction you want the PunBB project to go, and begin work on making that happen. Expecting the FluxBB developers to keep your project alive is an unreasonable request to me.

We do not mean that FluxBB developers should come to PunBB and do all the work to keep PunBB and FluxBB compatible. But we'd appreciate they to keep watching forums (concerning questions on the core and bug reports at least) and just keep contact with us. Also we'd  like to take a part in FluxBB core development (if the team means this useful for community).

kpdesign wrote:

FluxBB is alive and well and continuing forward in its development. Some of the community members (myself included) made the decision to move here and support FluxBB in any way that we can.

All that said, I wish for the PunBB project to continue to grow and much success in the future. Good luck!

I'm really glad that all these events speed up FluxBB core development and makes 1.3 release closer. I find this to be positive effect.

Soon we will update PunBB site (to clarify the new direction) and SVN repository (to keep PunBB and FluxBB compatible).


EDIT:

kpdesign wrote:

but I find it amazing that it has taken over 5 days for you to respond to the announcement

We had a state holidays in Russia from 9-th to 11-th of May. And it took several days to formulate official position of the company. Yes, it is not as fast as just telling your personal opinion in forum :)

Last edited by Anatoly (2008-05-14 14:23:16)

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9 Reply by hcgtv

  • From: Charlotte, NC
  • Registered: 2008-05-07
  • Posts: 360

Re: PunBB comment on FluxBB announcement

Narrator wrote:

The Clone Wars begin during the Separatist Crisis when thousands of star systems seceded from the Galactic Republic to form the Confederacy of Independent Systems (CIS).

http://www.mrdaz.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/yoda.jpg

Yoda wrote:

Blind we are, if creation of this clone army we could not see.

Bert Garcia - When all you have is a keyboard

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10 Reply by Meow

  • Meow
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  • From: Taipei, Taiwan
  • Registered: 2008-05-10
  • Posts: 662

Re: PunBB comment on FluxBB announcement

PunBB will become like Netscape Navigator, and FluxBB will become like Mozilla Firefox. Won't they?

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11 Reply by Anatoly

  • From: Russia
  • Registered: 2008-05-12
  • Posts: 68

Re: PunBB comment on FluxBB announcement

Meow wrote:

PunBB will become like Netscape Navigator, and FluxBB will become like Mozilla Firefox. Won't they?

I don't think so, because we'd like to keep it lightweight and simple enough too, the same time having such a featured extension system like Firefox.
More correct analogy is that PunBB and FluxBB are different builds based on the same core, but with different configuration and extension presets.

Carpe diem

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12 Reply by Vovochka

  • From: Ukraine
  • Registered: 2008-05-10
  • Posts: 165

Re: PunBB comment on FluxBB announcement

Anatoly, thanks for translating smile

The next paragraph is my personal opinion:
new punbb owner is now in knock-down. Things that seemed to be bought are not owned now. These are developers and community  (According to Tim's O'Reilly "What Is Web 2.0" community = co-developers). That's why we see an attempt to catch up with rapidly growing FluxBB (or just not to become far behind)

Anatoly wrote:

Soon we will update PunBB site (to clarify the new direction) and SVN repository (to keep PunBB and FluxBB compatible).

Hmm... maybe I should start my own BB and just download FluxBB's svn smile

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13 Reply by Anatoly

  • From: Russia
  • Registered: 2008-05-12
  • Posts: 68

Re: PunBB comment on FluxBB announcement

Vovochka wrote:

Anatoly, thanks for translating :)

The next paragraph is my personal opinion:
new punbb owner is now in knock-down. Things that seemed to be bought are not owned now. These are developers and community  (According to Tim's O'Reilly "What Is Web 2.0" community = co-developers). That's why we see an attempt to catch up with rapidly growing FluxBB (or just not to become far behind)

Hm.. you are right: we do follow developers as it is really useful for us now. Why should we act other way? :)
We were working first of all with Rickard. Developers also did work with him (not us) too.
Rickard stepped aside. So we have no PunBB core leader. And developers have no any motivation to work with us anymore.
It is simple.
We have no ways (and should not) force developers to stay in PunBB. And it seems to be right decision for developers to fork not to depend on us in any way.

Vovochka wrote:

Hmm... maybe I should start my own BB and just download FluxBB's svn =)

Why not, if you need this? :)

PS: Let the Force be with you :)

Last edited by Anatoly (2008-05-14 15:56:36)

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14 Reply by nico_somb

  • From: Lille (France)
  • Registered: 2008-05-13
  • Posts: 6

Re: PunBB comment on FluxBB announcement

The 2 posts concerning FluxBB on punbb.org were deleted... Censure?

FluxBB.fr
Blog

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15 Reply by Smartys

  • Registered: 2008-04-27
  • Posts: 2,663

Re: PunBB comment on FluxBB announcement

nico_somb wrote:

The 2 posts concerning FluxBB on punbb.org were deleted... Censure?

I think they were just moved to General discussion

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16 Reply by Anatoly

  • From: Russia
  • Registered: 2008-05-12
  • Posts: 68

Re: PunBB comment on FluxBB announcement

nico_somb wrote:

The 2 posts concerning FluxBB on punbb.org were deleted... Censure?

Which ones?

The next two were moved to "General Discussions" as they are not official PunBB newsletters:
http://punbb.informer.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=19157
http://punbb.informer.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=19185

Carpe diem

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17 Reply by shedrock

  • From: Canada
  • Registered: 2008-05-09
  • Posts: 441

Re: PunBB comment on FluxBB announcement

Are we going to see some of those extensions in Flux?

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18 Reply by Paul

  • Paul
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  • From: Wales, UK
  • Registered: 2008-04-27
  • Posts: 1,344

Re: PunBB comment on FluxBB announcement

Hi Anatoly,

We are happy that the parting of the ways has been achieved so amicably. We are interested to hear that PunBB will be using the FluxBB core and about the owners other plans for PunBB. One thing we should clarify though is that our paramount concern is to develop FluxBB in accordance with our own vision for the project and that of the community whose input we value very highly. Clearly it would not be appropriate for there to be any formal arrangement for cooperation with PunBB developers as it might result in the needs of another project being given priority over the needs of own community. You and an other members of the PunBB development team are of course always welcome to post in this forum.

Best wishes
FluxBB Dev Team

The only thing worse than finding a bug is knowing I created it in the first place.

19 Reply by Anatoly

  • From: Russia
  • Registered: 2008-05-12
  • Posts: 68

Re: PunBB comment on FluxBB announcement

Paul wrote:

...
Best wishes
FluxBB Dev Team

Forwarded to PunBB owners.

Carpe diem

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20 Reply by Meow

  • Meow
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  • From: Taipei, Taiwan
  • Registered: 2008-05-10
  • Posts: 662

Re: PunBB comment on FluxBB announcement

Paul wrote:

We are interested to hear that PunBB will be using the FluxBB core and about the owners other plans for PunBB.

Is PunBB going to use FluxBB's core in the future?

Chita, a feral furry paradise.

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21 Reply by Jérémie

  • From: Paris, France
  • Registered: 2008-04-30
  • Posts: 531

Re: PunBB comment on FluxBB announcement

Seems that way, yes.

Dorem  - Shadowrun France - Blacky

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22 Reply by Meow

  • Meow
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Re: PunBB comment on FluxBB announcement

Similar to this?

Firefox and Flock are both GPL softwares, but Flock uses Firefox's core.

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23 Reply by SuperMAG

  • Registered: 2008-05-10
  • Posts: 700

Re: PunBB comment on FluxBB announcement

what is Flock

Sports2All: Watch Online all the Sports (Wrestling, Football, Cricket & All other Sports)

24 Reply by Meow

  • Meow
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Re: PunBB comment on FluxBB announcement

http://www.flock.com/

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25 Reply by chris

  • Registered: 2008-05-09
  • Posts: 21

Re: PunBB comment on FluxBB announcement

Anatoly and the Pun owners are not going to give an overview of their plans because if they did everyone who is "on the fence", as hcgtv describes it, would make up their mind to dump Pun altogether. They're plan now is the same as it has been from the beginning (which they've kept from us all along, until it is too late - I submit the move to the subdomain as example. They're going to continue to focus all their resources on extensions while they wait for the community developers (the Flux team) to finish 1.3.

Anatoly wrote:

You are right. But the answer is: we like the way FluxBB goes now....
...That is why we almost did no commits into the core, but put lots our recourses (sic) into extensions development. from here

...we do follow developers as it is really useful for us now. from here

Once 1.3 (or whatever the Flux team decides to version it) is finished the new Pun owners are going to take Flux, rebrand it as Pun and attempt to commercialize their "professional" extensions collection that they will bill as the difference maker in Pun being better then Flux. Their sales pitch will be "sure you can use those other guys stuff for free, but we have professional support and we wrote these extensions ourselves, so you can trust them".

A lot of people are talking about compatibility, and sharing between Pun & Flux. While it is very easy for that to happen now (they're both basically identical) in 6 months, a year, two years, Pun & Flux will be different as night and day. The only way to prevent this if if the Pun owners do 0 development on the core and Pun is continually updated by Flux releases, which I can't see happening long term.

As a footnote I'd like to commend Paul on his response. While Anatoly may like to continually mention the "professional" nature of the developers he (or rather the Pun owners) have working for them it is the professionalism of the Flux team that has kept this "break up" so civil, and it is that same professionalism that will make Flux, not Pun, the successor to Rickard's vision.

p.s. sorry this is such a long post...

Last edited by chris (2008-05-17 14:16:19)